Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ontario-now-recommend... "Ontario now recommending against Moderna vaccine for men 18-24 years old...This comes after public health officials determined there is a 1 in 5,000 risk of myocarditis — a form of heart inflammation — following a second dose of the Moderna vaccine."
Which is, by the way, still multiple orders of magnitude lower than the risk of myocarditis from catching COVID.
Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
341–350 of 407 posts
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I hate that, is it something real or are my chances lower than being bitten to death by a dog?
Why are people only focusing on numbers. There are tons of negative stuff with higher odds of happening to you but I don't want to risk myocarditis. I'd rather get bitten, unless it's a rabid dog.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? People use this kind of logic all the time to say that commonplace activities are unlikely to be that risky — in fact we have the opposite problem with so many people being used to things like influenza being softened by widespread vaccination that they collectively under-estimate the risks of the untreated form.
Just because lots of people do it doesn't mean it's a rational thing to do. As i see it, the only thing that matters in science is to be factual. If we stop being impeccable with our words, we are no better than the conspiracy nuts. To say that the evidence would have been here now is simply not true because we can't possibly know WHEN symptoms will present. What would be more appropriate would be to say that in the…
Actually, we can. Vaccination isn’t long-term exposure but a brief immune trigger — this is very different from medication being taken over a long term because the vaccine is only in your body for such a short period of time. In the multi-century history of vaccination, side effects are almost always immediate and the longest delays are measured in weeks, not years. There’s no mechanism for a longer reaction time because your immune system doesn’t work that way.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#344The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly the more we learn and the more fervent the mandates become. We pulled the swine flu vaccine for way less back in 2010, I think it was 12 cases of GBS only! The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS. The reason damn near everyone except for adamant anti-vax h…
> The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS My daughter's bf's friend's mom died of a stroke two days after getting the vaccine. Two of my brother-in-laws where hospitalized for heart issues after the vaccine. Another friend of ours now has bad tinnitus after getting the vaccine. A guy at my dad's work stroked out within 48 hours of…
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just because lots of people do it doesn't mean it's a rational thing to do. As i see it, the only thing that matters in science is to be factual. If we stop being impeccable with our words, we are no better than the conspiracy nuts. To say that the evidence would have been here now is simply not true because we can't possibly know WHEN symptoms will present. What would be more appropriate would be to say that in the…
> To say that the evidence would have been here now is simply not true because we can't possibly know WHEN symptoms will present. Actually, we can. Vaccination isn’t long-term exposure but a brief immune trigger — this is very different from medication being taken over a long term because the vaccine is only in your body for such a short period of time. In the multi-century history of vaccination, side effects are al…
What could be the risks of taking booster shots every 6 months?
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#346Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are claiming an article of faith as fact. It isn't. You can assert probabilities but you can't prove a negative. Appeal to ridicule doesn't change that.
That's exactly what I'm saying. I can't prove a negative -- the burden of proof is on the other party. By your reasoning, being unable to prove a negative means that, outside of maybe math, facts don't really exist. I can't prove that WW2 wasn't an elaborate hoax, I can't prove that Texas is a real state, I can't prove that babies aren't brought around by very stealthy storks. The point is, you already accept WW2 as…
You again are appealing to ridicule.
Once again, just to be clear, I'm not saying Trump won the 2020 election. Trump's claims he won for sure and "everyone knows it" are just as nonfactual and people who claim Trump actually won is a "fact" are also making preference based statements of faith, just as you and original poster are doing. Unless they have top secret proof they are not sharing which as you alluded to earlier, appears unlikely.
What I'm taking about is the nature of "absolute fact" and "probability" and stating things as certain facts that are not certain facts. Also assessing the possibility or probability of events occurring.
Here are statements I'd have no problem with:
"No conclusive evidence has been presented that fraud tipped the scales in the 2020 election"
"It appears extremely unlikely Trump actually won the 2020 election because the evidence thus far presented in court has not held up to scrutiny"
Here is a statement I do have a problem with:
"1/3 of people are so dumb they don't even believe the "fact" that the 2020 election was legitimate so XXX because facts don't matter to unwashed idiots" (which was the gist of the original post I took exception with).
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> For example, do you know what the risk of hospitalization from Covid is when unvaccinated? > Risk numbers are totally useless when not stating the time over which the risk is incurred. A 1% lifetime risk is very different from a 1% daily risk. In this specific case the timeframe is not relevant. The metric here was "probability that you will be hospitalized IF you are infected with COVID-19". That means the timeli…
> The metric here was "probability that you will be hospitalized IF you are infected with COVID-19". That's a good metric, but it's not the metric the numbers GP quoted were for. Those numbers were for the metric "probability that you would catch COVID-19 and be hospitalized with it over the past 1.5 years". That's fundamentally something different. What's your alluding to is also known as infection hospitalization r…
Where did you see that? I looked up GP and didn't find that 1.5 year time anywhere. Furthermore, it makes no sense in the context of GP, where they said:
> > For example, do you know what the risk of hospitalization from Covid is when unvaccinated?
> If you said >50%, you would be in good company. It's the most common answer.
I don't believe there is any place on earth where you can poll people and reach an average response of >50% to the question "what is the probability that you would catch covid AND be hospitalized for it over the next 1.5 years, if you don't get the vaccine". Let's think for a moment what that would require: first off, it would require a large proportion of the unvaccinated population to get COVID. Second, a large proportion of those unvaccinated infected people would need to be hospitalized. So basically, it would require a place on earth that doesn't yet have significant natural immunity due to previous infections, and doesn't have anywhere close to herd immunity due to vaccinations, and somehow, a place like that would need to be ravaged by COVID in the future. Furthermore, it would need a strain of COVID that hospitalizes something like 70% of those infected, compared to current strains of COVID, which hospitalize something like 1% of infected (remember, most COVID infections do not cause symptoms and thus are not counted in infected counts).
This scenario is so outlandish it is very very clearly impossible. It's so outlandish that you will not be able to find a population where most people would believe such a scenario. Instead, what GP was likely referring to, was the "risk that you are hospitalized IF you catch COVID" (where, again, people overestimate the risks, but it's less outlandish).
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why are people only focusing on numbers. There are tons of negative stuff with higher odds of happening to you but I don't want to risk myocarditis. I'd rather get bitten, unless it's a rabid dog.
Dog bites can cause myocarditis. Typical monday when that happens.