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Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

latimes.com

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Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#121

Post by blitzar »

UncleEntity wrote: post #94
shiftpgdn wrote: post #25

It always bugs me they trot out the Mountain View crash as an example where a Model X struck an unmarked and unprotected jersey barrier end in what visually looks like a traffic lane. Further that multiple human drivers had hit the divider in the same spot and a near fatal accident occurred literally the next day into the same barrier. If I put a brick wall on the freeway and paint it to look like a tunnel ala wil-e-…

The Mountain View crash where the driver reported that specific location to Tesla on multiple occasions and still let the robocar drive full speed into the jersey barrier on autopilot?

It sounds a bit like the 3 foot wide concrete pillar that came out of nowhere and scratched half way down the passenger side of the car recently.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#122

Post by IshKebab »

sparker72678 wrote: post #43
gorkish wrote: post #19

My hypothesis on this is that all automaker's automatic emergency braking systems likely function at approximately the same level, but Tesla drivers are disproportionately likely to rely on it due to the use of Autopilot being so incredibly common. Statistically, drivers of other brands that include similar lanekeeping abilities are far less likely to use them compared to Tesla owners' use of Autopilot. Should it be…

This article addresses automatic emergency breaking, which is ON by default in the vehicles discussed.

Right but his point is that Teslas are more likely to crash in the first place because people are using Autopilot, which isn't as good as human drivers. So automatic braking gets used more.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#123

Post by shapefrog »

fy20 wrote: post #115
andrewia wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the flashing lights and appearance might degrade autopilot. Other cars also have issues because they use radar (except for some new models with camera-based systems like the 2022 Honda Civic) and ignore stationary targets when they see a moving vehicle as a more likely "target". Some systems use a combination of radar and camera (with camera providing low-speed, parked car, bike, and pedestrian detection). Th…

I wonder if it would make sense to hand over control to the human, or at least slow down a lot, if the car detects any emergency vehicles with lights flashing. For emergency vehicles parked on the side of the road, there could be all sorts of reasons why you should slow down and move to the other lane. Blasting through 3ft from the vehicle at 80mph isn't the smartest move. I've been in situations where I've had to st…

> I wonder if it would make sense to hand over control to the human

Handing over control to the driver having a nap seems like a bad idea. Slowing down certainly makes sense, I for one have an inbuilt instinct, when I see flashing lights and a parked police car, I tend to ease off a bit and prepare to stop.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#124

Post by gmac »

lacker wrote: post #16

Automatic braking doesn't get much attention, but it seems like something that could be incredibly valuable if it got to the "clearly better than human" level. This is purely anecdotal, but I find the automatic braking system on my Mazda CX-9 to be fairly annoying. Once every couple months or so, it has a false alarm and brakes while blaring out alerts, in an urban environment where I don't observe anything out of th…

My 2018 SEAT (VW group tech) has twice saved me from an expensive mistake by slamming on the brakes rather than reverse into an obstacle.

The first time I'd only had the car a couple of days and had accidentally engaged reverse when I thought I was in first (the previous car had a different gear layout).

Another couple of times it's squeaked at me at low speed for no obvious reason. On balance, I'm extremely pleased with it.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#125

Post by raxxorrax »

beamatronic wrote: post #71
baybal2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Tesla even have a radar?

Yes, at least some do, and they recently disabled it in a recent software update

Any info as to why? Simply because it is redundant or is there a technical problem with it?

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#126

Post by [deleted] »

vkou wrote: post #86
ape4 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every lane change is a possible collision. I wonder if that was taken into account.

> I wonder if that was taken into account. It was, but as the moral accounting stands, it is better for ten 'civilians' to be hurt, than for one police officer.

[deleted]

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#128

Post by delfinom »

baybal2 wrote: post #59
Someone1234 wrote: post #49

Because Tesla effectively doesn't have AEB while AutoPilot is enabled. In a Tesla AEB should be an entirely self-contained ("dumber") system. Its only job should be to look for any ground-level object ahead and brake. It should do this using simpler but more reliable ("dumber") techniques like forward bumper-level radar or camera parallax, not NN/deep learning/object recognition/AI. To use an analogy, AEB should be l…

Does Tesla even have a radar?

Many manufacturers are removing radar in their latest model spins fwiw.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#129

Post by kalleboo »

taylortbb wrote: post #65
namrog84 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think so. I thought their whole gimmick or goal was to drive entirely by cameras and nothing else. Because humans only have eyes. Though just speculation and no source.

Due to the current chip shortage they've moved to a vision-only system, as they had difficulty getting radar units in the quantity required. Until recently however, all Teslas had radar since ~2014. The high profile crashes are mostly/all radar-enabled vehicles. The thing about automotive radar, and this isn't just Tesla, is that stationary objects are normally excluded. Otherwise the system brakes for things like ov…

When we bought our used Suzuki, one of the differences to another car we looked at was that ours had stereo vision AEB and the other had radar - one of the selling points by the dealer was that the camera version could detect stopped objects, which I always figured was half the point of AEB.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#130

Post by perryizgr8 »

llampx wrote: post #120
namrog84 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think so. I thought their whole gimmick or goal was to drive entirely by cameras and nothing else. Because humans only have eyes. Though just speculation and no source.

Humans only have eyes? So Teslas can smell the milk and throw it out if its gone bad? Or listen to a faraway sound and know that its getting closer at an alarming or not-alarming rate? Or feel the road getting harsher and understand that the GPS is incorrect?

> So Teslas can smell the milk and throw it out if its gone bad?

Cars do not need that skill.

> Or listen to a faraway sound and know that its getting closer at an alarming or not-alarming rate?

I'm sure the car has multiple microphones, it just needs the brains to process the input.

> Or feel the road getting harsher and understand that the GPS is incorrect?

Again, I am sure the car has multiple G sensors, accelerometers and gyroscopes. It just needs the smarts to process the input.

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