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Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

underdogdevs.org

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Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#51
post #8

Are developers the new blue-collar workers? I haven’t seen a similar program for aspiring lawyers, doctors or accountants. Aren’t we too eager to commoditize the profession?

I don’t understand how including people who’ve been incarcerated commodifies the profession. But I also continue to identify as a worker and have solidarity with my fellow workers, so I’m probably not your intended audience.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#52
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bar is lower because we don’t have formal testing like they do, e.g. the bar exam or med school.

So, would you require someone to get formal testing before they can code a website for someone for pay? Why?

Possibly. It could prove that a dev knows what they’re doing. It might even eliminate the need for Leetcode style interview questions.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#53
I am a person with a degree in computer science that was convicted of a felony many moons ago. I have been working as a developer for about the last decade.

You can do it, but the fear of losing employment, housing, etc is a very real day-to-day thing I still have in the front of my mind.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#54
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bar is lower because we don’t have formal testing like they do, e.g. the bar exam or med school.

So, would you require someone to get formal testing before they can code a website for someone for pay? Why?

You have heard of the tech interview process, yes? :-)

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#55
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The short answer is yes, the bar for a developer is much, much lower than for a lawyer, a doctor, or an accountant, requiring much less training. Doesn't mean that there aren't some forms of development that require considerable skill and experience, but many positions just don't.

The bar is lower because we don’t have formal testing like they do, e.g. the bar exam or med school.

The parent mentioned regulated professions, but there is a flurry of roles surrounding lawyers, nurses and accountants that don't require certification.

Now, I'm sure there are programs to try to help ex-convicts to get into generic company roles like assistants, data operators etc.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#56

I am a person with a degree in computer science that was convicted of a felony many moons ago. I have been working as a developer for about the last decade. You can do it, but the fear of losing employment, housing, etc is a very real day-to-day thing I still have in the front of my mind.

Yup. It's not teaching these people how to code. It's getting them a job once they can. Most companies will not hire them.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#57
post #3

I’ve worked with a few former criminals who spent time in prison for things they did in their youths. Keep in mind that I’m Scandinavian and our justice system is very, very, different. But all of them had been young and unadjusted and eventually wound up hurting someone over something stupid. Having matured and now in their 30’ies, none of that past life remained in any way in my dealings with them. Obviously this i…

Unfortunately it's not very representative. The vast majority of people in SiS do not end in a good place. Anyone who has worked at a SiS institution can attest how hopeless it feels that so few has any chance of rehabilitation whatsoever. You almost presume most will end up in prison or dead.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#58
post #8

Are developers the new blue-collar workers? I haven’t seen a similar program for aspiring lawyers, doctors or accountants. Aren’t we too eager to commoditize the profession?

"Developer" is not a profession.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#59
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You literally directly contradict yourself. You link to two pages that have absolutely nothing to do with getting formerly incarcerated people into law/medicine, then immediately concede that there isn’t an effort to do so because they’re not welcome in those fields. Your failure to keep two paragraphs of texts consistent and coherent badly undermines your overall point. It’s pretty clear tech as a whole is a lot les…

oh goodness, there's a lot to unpack here. >You literally directly contradict yourself. You link to two pages that have absolutely nothing to do with getting formerly incarcerated people into law/medicine, then immediately concede that there isn’t an effort to do so because they’re not welcome in those fields. I linked to the two respective institutions that lobby for physicians and lawyers respectively. They cannot…

> failure to perform leads to more severe consequences as compared to tech.

When “we” (people who write code) fuck up, things like this can and have happened:

- people die of radiation poisoning (Therac 25)

- cars crash (Toyota unintended acceleration, Tesla autopilot fails)

- rockets explode (Ariane 5)

- hundreds of millions of dollars are lost (Knight Capital)

- the financial information of millions is exposed (Equifax)

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#60
post #8

Are developers the new blue-collar workers? I haven’t seen a similar program for aspiring lawyers, doctors or accountants. Aren’t we too eager to commoditize the profession?

I think about that a lot. It's interesting though, that you make the suggestion with a reference to three professions which require a certain level of security clearance, and an adherence to a legally upheld standard, in order to hold practice.
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