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Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

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Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#251

I've observed windowserver on macOS constantly eat 30+% of my CPU whenever Firefox is running for a few versions now, and more and more web apps effectively require Chrome nowadays. Plus now this sort of change coming up ... maybe it's a good time to try out something new. Brave perhaps?

Brave is Chromium...

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#252
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Once enabled, Firefox Suggest sends what I type in the address bar to Mozilla. There it gets augmented with my location and makes its way to their "preferred partners", limited, for the moment, to a lovely establishment called "adMarketplace". You don't see a slightest problem with that, no? Reading through their "how Mozilla handles data" page [1] reveals absolutely nothing specific. What's collected, what's bei…

> You don't see a slightest problem with that, no? If adMarketplace is just receiving from Mozilla a stream of (search text, city, clicked yes/no) then no, I don't see a problem with it. If Mozilla sends a unique user ID as well then I would see a problem with it, but as far as I can tell, they don't.

You are OK that - by default - you type something in the Firefox address bar and some random company you've heard of gets a copy of it? You are A-OK with this?

Because this is on by default in FF93, be it a new install or an upgrade.

For now limited to the US, but it's safe to assume they are just testing waters.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#253
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with paying market rates for a CEO? Do you think they should find a CEO below market rates? Have you donated money to Mozilla or Wikipedia?

They had an extremely competent CEO who was more than happy to work for a price below market rates, but he was a conservative, so they sacked him. Now Mozilla has what it deserves.

It wasn't "because he was a conservative". It was because he was funding a campaign to limit peoples rights and and everyone / every website was running a campaign to tell users to get off Firefox if they want to stop funding this. It would have destroyed Mozilla if they did nothing.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#254
post #117

It's a common wish here at HN that one would like to donate directly to Firefox development. Is there a legal reason that Mozilla can't do this considering their setup having the Mozilla Corporation run Firefox development? What else could their reasons be for at least not experimenting with the option?

Because alot of people who otherwise donate to Mozilla would then donate to Firefox directly and that is not what the execs really want to happen.

I would donate to Mozilla if >50% went to FF development. Considering that I haven't seen prompts to donate in Firefox(for that last years at least), in the release notes, etc. It seems like a missed opportunity, both for FF development and for other Mozilla projects.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much wishful thinking around this... "me and five other people want to pay, if you just cater to my specific tastes, than the me and these 5 people will happily bankroll your massive engineering effort!" Maybe people would be happier if they had to pay to switch off the ads instead of it just being a setting (/switching default search engine)??

If you get 5000 people paying $5/month for every person working on a truly private browser, you have $25,000/month per teammate. I'm sure you could find 50,000 people in the world willing to pay this. I'm one of them. The problem is how you get started while building reputation, but I'm sure that it's possible.

There's some remarkable sleight of hand in "for every person working on [it]". That's a lot of people required to build a browser. Are you suggesting each of those 5000 users pays $5 multiplied by $NUM_OF_DEVELOPERS, or that you'll need [5000 multiplied by $NUM_OF_DEVELOPERS] users?

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just makes me worry a little bit that Firefox will take a similar route to Brave and introduce multiple streams of revenue into the browser, disguised as features that the user would want. E.g. Brave Rewards, Brave VPN, Sponsored Wallpapers. These just clog up the interface and make it feel sketchy. I just want a normal FOSS browser, but I also understand the whole financing issue.

I’ve used Brave as my daily driver for years, and not once have I ever been even mildly inconvenienced by the optional BAT token feature. If it helps fund the browser, I’m glad- that’s better for me. I understand why people dislike it, but the outrage seems superfluous.

I largely lost my trust in Brave after the absolute shitshow where they were hard-redirecting domains globally that you hand entered through their affiliate link redirects - you'd enter example.com and the browser would be hardcoded to not load example.com

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe go the other direction and try to cut expenses rather than trying to make more money? Firefox gets hundreds of millions from Google alone in royalties, that is not enough to build a web browser? Firefox has lost almost half of its users since 2010, yet it keeps burning more money every year. Run the company in a lean way, cut the fat, do one thing well. It's like Wikipedia, every year they seemingly find new in…

> Firefox gets hundreds of millions from Google alone in royalties, that is not enough to build a web browser? Empirically, it is not. Even Microsoft gave up that chase. Browsers are staggeringly complex and expensive to build. Which may be an indictment of the Web itself, but in the absence of a simpler alternative (Gemini?), the Web we have is the Web we've got, and browsers have to meet it where it is.

But the Web we have is not a monolith. If freedom/ethics/privacy/etc. are important to a browser user, they should realize that there's a subset of the Web that they need, and one they can do without. "I need to be able to discover and consume every work in every medium from everyone immediately and have it be secure and efficient" is the unspoken mindset that enables this kind of decay in the browser world. Essential services like banks, government are the one subset that you need but will be extremely hard to change, if even possible. For everything else, people need to realize that there's a Web that doesn't need their browsers to participate in this arms race, and that Web needs support from users and from producers.

EDIT: I guess I forgot shopping in essential services, which is another huge source of fuel in the arms race.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not talking about modern Linux though. Modern Linux isn't "coordinated by a (admittably singlularly competent) sole finnish guy in a bathrobe from home," , there's now a team of people involved. Sure there is a hierarchy with someone taking the lead but isn't that true for most operations? Even the Mozilla foundation has a Chair (Mitchell Baker) and Executive Director (Mark Surman). Linux hasn't been a single p…

The "guy in a bathrobe" is still the lead and has the final say. Is he compensated anywhere near what Mozilla's CEO is? In fact is the total comp of all the people significantly involved in Linux kernel development anywhere near the total comp of Mozilla's C-suite? I doubt it.

You're now making a tangential argument about whether people are being paid their worth and frankly that's never been the case.

Most of us developers, devops and sysadmins are paid an obscene wage compared to many critical services like nursing. Is it fair? Probably not. But that doesn't have any baring on the complexity of Linux vs Firefox.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gemini throws out way way too much. Inline links and image support for one. It feels like someone wants to have everything exactly as it was in the 80s. They claim to stop feature creep by not including any kind of optional data support like headers and the spec team will reject any feature additions. While I would be happy to have HTML/CSS exactly as it is and replace JS with a minimal WASM implementation that lets…

I'd be surprised if the most popular Gemini clients didn't support Markdown.

I would be. The Gemini devs would insist that nothing should be supported that doesn't work on an 80 char terminal with only the ascii charset.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#260
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A browser is expensive. Currently Firefox is funded (though not controlled) by Google's Ad business. I am all for them reducing their reliance on Google's Ad business. In this sense this is a step _towards_ what you want. I really really dislike them double speaking about this though.

I'd love to be able to pay some monthly subscription to support Firefox. But every time this comes up, someone tells me that there's no way to directly support Firefox itself. I wish they'd do something like Wikipedia does, to ask their users to donate or contribute.

Unless I'm mistaken, Wikipedia doesn't ringfence their donations either, so by donating to the Wikimedia foundation [0] you're not just paying for wikipedia either.

[0] https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php

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