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I'm sorry

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171–180 of 277 posts

Re: I'm sorry

#171

holy fuck, does every little mistake need a solemn 4000 word apology these days? that’s already not a world i want to live in, but then even the apology gets shit on and invalidated. people need to take everything much less seriously, especially shit that happens on the internet. this whole thing should have been able to be a new PR with “sorry about the merge before, i screwed up and it won’t happen again” at the en…

It's not /just/ about the PR, the whole foundation has pulled all the projects it had access to into the DNF organization without telling anyone about it.

Re: I'm sorry

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you look at the Contribution License Agreement? It appears that the issue at hand was in fact "spelled out". Repo owners aren't unreasonable to interpret this action as bad faith. I would agree that their message would be better communicated with a more amicable tone.

> I would agree that their message would be better communicated with a more amicable tone. This was entirely GP's point.

Yes, I agreed with his point and disagreed with his characterization of the situation.

Re: I'm sorry

#173
post #166

I am not versed in all the details here, but it is clear there is a diverge of expectations between MS and some of the repo owners. This is just part of business. Legal agreements and projects are complicated. Not everything is going to be spelled out. In a good business relationship you acknowledge this and work in good faith to resolve differences when they occur. However, top comments make clear there is a dire ne…

I think more highly of people who are honest about their emotions and express them, instead of pretending that the motivating force behind almost all of our personal behavior isn't "relevant." Emotional ≠ unproductive.

It's not a question of whether they express their emotion, but how they express it.

It's possible to express anger without burning bridges.

Re: I'm sorry

#174
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft doesn't contribute to open source software because open source software is good for the world. Microsoft contributes to open source software because Microsoft wants to sell more proprietary software and services to the open source world, as more and more developers live in that world. They realized that without significant service lock-in, people would begin to abandon things like Windows (and continue to i…

open source is open source, it is good that they are embracing open source community and contributing A LOT of resources to that. We have a lot of good softwares, framework, open code to learn and communities build by them and they're not allowed to make money from it? You're basically saying that people who wants to make money are bad. That is just a weird judgement, laravel is building a whole ecosystem to make mon…

Reading the parent post, I found the monetary aspect less as some kind of anti-capitalist moralism, but more an observation regarding incentives:

There's nothing wrong with making money. However, when your historical business model relies on leveraging monopolistic positions to make said money, any contribution you make is tainted by your ultimate goals of embracing, extending and extinguishing competition to those monopolistic, proprietary offerings. I simply don't trust Microsoft: anything they present isn't a Trojan horse of one flavor or another; proprietary addons in vsc, all the Github nonsense, poisoned "foundation" governance structures - all of it has the effect of luring developers into doing work that benefits the Microsoft ecosystem over open ecosystems. It is naive in the extreme to assert that just because a benefit exists in any form, all harms associated with that benefit must be ignored.

Nothing wrong with making money from software. Lots is wrong with Microsoft attempting to bamboozle developers out of the rights to their work in a transparent attempt to extend corporate lock-in. When Microsoft GPLs their codebase, I'll take their contributions to open source at face value. They can take donations like everyone else.

Re: I'm sorry

#175

I am not versed in all the details here, but it is clear there is a diverge of expectations between MS and some of the repo owners. This is just part of business. Legal agreements and projects are complicated. Not everything is going to be spelled out. In a good business relationship you acknowledge this and work in good faith to resolve differences when they occur. However, top comments make clear there is a dire ne…

I don't see anything wrong with that quote. Can it be expressed more "softly"? Sure. But that person is expressing his opinion and I don't see any problem with that. You could also argue it lays the foundation for further escalation but that's on whoever chooses to engage in it IMO. There seems to be a more general trend going on, some think themselves or others must be protected from "harshness" (even though I consi…

> You could also argue it lays the foundation for further escalation but that's on whoever chooses to engage in it IMO.

This sounds like victim-blaming. I can imagine neo-nazis using this type of statement to defend someone who yelled the N-word in a black neighborhood.

The truth is that inflammatory language, which GP's quote was, is rarely constructive.

Re: I'm sorry

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TL;DR; .NET Foundation moved all member projects to be a suborg of .NET Foundation without asking maintainers. For example, I am a maintainer of https://github.com/pythonnet/ . If you follow that link, you will see "Part of .NET Foundation" which is a GitHub Enterprise Organization. AFAIU, They could do that because when joining projects needed to add dnfadmin@github bot, that was supposed to perform some utility tas…

I don't see "Part of .NET Foundation" anywhere on that page.

It is right under the project name next to the logo.

Re: I'm sorry

#177
Well, if you ask me, I’d like to see an apology for the one-line whitespace change, using !=true, and closing the XML tag without a space.

From the commit which started this whole brouhaha:

https://github.com/reactiveui/splat/commit/cd2cbb807b36dd89b...

That’s some grade A hornet nest kicking right there.

/s

Re: I'm sorry

#178
...so that's how you get a lot of work for nothing... people, please never sign something without at least clearly stating what you think it means. A sneaky way is printing the document and sending it back together with a statement of how you interprete it - best on the page you should sign... A simple (see email 211007) below your signature often is enough... if you did not sign on paper but just by clicking some buttons, your position is even better, especially if you are in a non us legislation and there is no translation...
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