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Bitcoin is a Ponzi

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Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#211

Post by jschwartzi »

glenvdb wrote: post #117
sentinel wrote: post #24

Another day another “stay away from bitcoin” post on HN

The anti-Bitcoin sentiment on HN is frankly baffling to me. It's one of the most exciting things happening in tech right now, and HN is at best ambivalent and at worst openly hostile to Bitcoin. Why wouldn't the tech crowd be excited about digital native money which is perfect for the Internet? Look at what's happening around the ecosystem with the Lightning Network, Impervious.AI, RGB etc. https://rgb-org.github.io/…

Bitcoin isn’t exciting because it doesn’t solve very many problems relative to the massive energy expenditure needed to create it. It’s like a fire at an oil well or a gas pipeline break. The arguments for why we should use it remind me a lot of arguments for why this year is the year of the Linux desktop. Bitcoin may be eating a lot of speculation but I can’t buy beans with it.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#212

Post by phase5 »

It's been more than a decade of innovation. Gary Gensler (SEC Chairman) has acknowledged the value of Bitcoin. Lets ignore idiots like Jorge Stolfi. He's no different from the BSV characters...

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#213

Post by whateveracct »

jliptzin wrote: post #147

Bitcoin is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The fact that it satisfies a certain set of conditions of a Ponzi scheme does not invalidate the myriad current and future applications of crypto. The social security administration could also be considered a Ponzi scheme, but it still provides tremendous value to a lot of people.

LuLaRoe is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The fact that it satisfies a certain set of conditions of a pyramid scheme does not invalidate the myriad current and future applications of MLM.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#214

Post by rabuse »

HashBasher wrote: post #190
analog31 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bank account is a digital store of value, in US dollars. I never visit the bank (was impossible during the lockdown), rarely handle cash, and when I do, it's inconvenient.

Your digital store of value promises to lose around 2% of its buying power every year, and they beat that by a lot this past year.

You can offset the inflation with your 0.5% savings account though... /s

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#215

Post by oingodoingo »

jtbayly wrote: post #193
Zamicol wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This year Ethereum has so far settled over $6 trillion in value on chain. And the system has revenues. Ethereum did around $35 million daily in fees this last week. Uniswap did around $3 million. https://cryptofees.info/ No doubt there's something to it.

That’s like saying that because people are actually selling shovels and pickaxes there is something to the gold rush.

hmm… you mean the people who sold the tools made most of the profit …and the vast majority of miners destroyed the environment to lose a gamble…

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#216

Post by cryptoquick »

Daishiman wrote: post #64
lpa22 wrote: post #11

> They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour. I strongly believe bitcoin will be the new gold one day, if it doesn't pan out as a currency. It sounds insane, but I actually believe the Winklevoss twins when they say Elon and SpaceX will be able to mine gold on asteroids within the next 20 years, which would crash the price of gol…

> I strongly believe bitcoin will be the new gold one day, if it doesn't pan out as a currency. It sounds insane, but I actually believe the Winklevoss twins when they say Elon and SpaceX will be able to mine gold on asteroids within the next 20 years, which would crash the price of gold. Not to mention as everything inevitably moves digital, we need to have a digital store of value. What is the energy cost to get a…

These figures aren't adjusted for Delta-V, or inflation, but here are some dollar figures for asteroid and lunar sample return missions:

Hayabusa, 2005 - $100 billion dollars per kg

Hayabusa 2, 2019 - $33.3 billion dollars per kg

OSIRIS-REx - 2020 - $491.7 million per kg

Chang'e - 2020 - $104 million per kg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY6aCg5InzY&t=170s

Seems to be trending downward... Who knows if it'll be enough.

I was curious if a similar downward trend existed for solar panels...

"In 1956, solar panels cost roughly $300 per watt. By 1975, that figure had dropped to just over $100 a watt. Today, a solar panel can cost as little as $0.50 a watt."

https://news.energysage.com/the-history-and-invention-of-sol...

So, that's a factor of 600 to get to present costs. Gold currently costs $56,500 per kg. So, $33,900,000/kg. So, who knows where we could be in 50-70 years. Plenty of time to switch the entire global economy to Bitcoin, I suppose!

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#217

Post by bb88 »

jokowueu wrote: post #175
bb88 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are an infinite supply of magical numbers. There are a limited supply of precious and rare metals easily minable on earth. E.g. The price of copper has been going up over the past century (adjusted for inflation) If you want to mine more magic numbers just add another digit to the search space and you'll easily have another 10 times more numbers.

But most coins have a limit . Btc is 21 million it's not infinite

Wait, that's fungible right?

* BTC forks (how many have there been, cause I forget.)

* If the BTC community wanted it to change, they could.

* The 100 other cryptocurrencies created every day.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#218

Post by ojbyrne »

tw04 wrote: post #191
jliptzin wrote: post #147

Bitcoin is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The fact that it satisfies a certain set of conditions of a Ponzi scheme does not invalidate the myriad current and future applications of crypto. The social security administration could also be considered a Ponzi scheme, but it still provides tremendous value to a lot of people.

>The social security administration could also be considered a Ponzi scheme, but it still provides tremendous value to a lot of people. The Social Security Administration is entirely solvent by itself. The only "ponzi scheme" comes from congress using it like a piggy bank. And despite all that, SSA is backed by the US government. Bitcoin is backed by... nothing. So it's basically the equivalent of the zimbabwe dollar…

Re: Congress using it like a piggy bank - citation needed.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#219

Post by bb88 »

rubinelli wrote: post #185
zacmps wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, what applications? Besides accelerating global warming there doesn't seem to be anything it's good at.

That's not true. It's fantastic for ransomware and scams in general.

Soon as a payment for CSAM... wait.. that already exists I'm sure.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#220

Post by geysersam »

nnx wrote: post #66

A bit ridiculous simplistic clickbait article... if the author had any intellectual honesty he would realize his arguments on gold NOT being a ponzi could be used exactly the same for Bitcoin: "First, few if any gold investors have expectations of profits. They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour." Actually almost every other p…

Is it not fair to say most investing in Bitcoin expects large profits?
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