Bitcoin is a Ponzi • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#171

Post by jjnoakes » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

everfree wrote: post #131

amin wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many cryptocurrencies who are nearly identical to Bitcoin, except that most don't have the widespread fame and support. In 2019 alone, 90,000 new crypto-currencies were created. Yes, there will only be 21 million bitcoins, but there are already countless, nearly an infite amount of copycat coins. This is not the case with gold.

> This is not the case with gold. Silver, platinum, palladium, rhodium, copper... Just as people have generally centered around gold, people have so far generally centered on Bitcoin. There's a great deal of other metals and a great deal of other cryptocurrencies, but if nobody really cares about them, then they are not relevant to the conversation.

You can't make new rare elements out of thin air though.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#172

Post by glenvdb » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

qaq wrote: post #89

glenvdb wrote: post #51

A lot of the "Common Objections" relate to the REASONS people choose to own Bitcoin and how those cases make it a Ponzi. There are many different reasons to own Bitcoin, however the author seems to only view it through the lens of someone living in a wealthy and developed country with financial stability. The properties of it being difficult/impossible to confiscate and its privacy make it valuable in oppressive regi…

Generally people participating in a Ponzi scheme do not view it as such. The tactics deployed by truly oppressive regimes make anything easy to confiscate including bitcoin.

Yes, the wrench technique will always ultimately win.

https://xkcd.com/538/

But they have to know someone holds it in the first place. You can walk around with a seed phrase in your head and no one would know.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#173

Post by BrianHenryIE » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

zacmps wrote: post #163

jliptzin wrote: post #147

Bitcoin is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The fact that it satisfies a certain set of conditions of a Ponzi scheme does not invalidate the myriad current and future applications of crypto. The social security administration could also be considered a Ponzi scheme, but it still provides tremendous value to a lot of people.

I'm sorry, what applications? Besides accelerating global warming there doesn't seem to be anything it's good at.

Commerce.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#174

Post by hanniabu » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #98

imsd wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More and more, I'm hearing only the ETH value rather than dollar denomination. Personally, when I bid (or receive bids) on any of my NFTs, I'm only considering the ETH price. It's a new shift, but I think quite profound. Edit: If you're referring to mainstream media, the dollar value is all that most would be able to put into context. For those deep in the space, we're thinking about dollar values less and less. My p…

But ETH is still tied to the dollar and that's where it gets its value, is in the comparison to the dollar. I don't accept ETH for a used car I'm going to sell. I accept dollars, though.

> But ETH is still tied to the dollar and that's where it gets its value,

For people that look at it like that, sure. That's not how everyone looks at it though. I personally look at it with the aim of acquiring as much ETH as possible because I can see that the future economy will be built on it and eventually things will be priced in ETH.

Just because the transitions are slow and you don't see it happening, doesn't mean that there's not a transition happening.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#175

Post by jokowueu » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #134

seibelj wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is silver, and platinum, and tungsten, etc. etc. It’s the same thing just in a physical format.

There are an infinite supply of magical numbers. There are a limited supply of precious and rare metals easily minable on earth. E.g. The price of copper has been going up over the past century (adjusted for inflation) If you want to mine more magic numbers just add another digit to the search space and you'll easily have another 10 times more numbers.

But most coins have a limit . Btc is 21 million it's not infinite

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#176

Post by cemerick » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

glenvdb wrote: post #51

A lot of the "Common Objections" relate to the REASONS people choose to own Bitcoin and how those cases make it a Ponzi. There are many different reasons to own Bitcoin, however the author seems to only view it through the lens of someone living in a wealthy and developed country with financial stability. The properties of it being difficult/impossible to confiscate and its privacy make it valuable in oppressive regi…

"Bitcoin privacy" is a contradiction in terms, as has been repeatedly proven.

You set up a scene of a refugee "storing their wealth in Bitcoin", but it begs the question: where are these refugees with substantial wealth they are looking to exfiltrate? Typical refugees are emigrating from locales where they were earning dollars per day. The use case of shielding hoarded wealth during a journey to a freer locale is a blinkered fantasy. (Of course, if this is incorrect, surely there are hundreds, at least dozens of compelling case studies by now?)

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#177

Post by bb88 » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #150

dvt wrote: post #61

People use BTC/ETH/etc. in exchange for goods . I mean, I'm not a fan of cryptocurrency, but calling it a Ponzi scheme is just wrong. There are plenty of shitcoins out there that are purely pump and dumps, but it seems like BTC is here to stay.

People don't use cryptocurrency "in exchange for goods" to any significant extent. Major merchant adoption of Bitcoin peaked years ago. And at least in my area, the same goes for local merchants; Bitcoin here is extinct. Bitcoin is doing what, 100m transactions per year? Most of which are not for physical goods. Venmo, which started around the same time, does over 2 billion. M-Pesa, a "digital money" solution the sam…

I tend to like "The Greater Fool."

Edit: Not sure why the downvotes, but this is a common phrase used to denote ponzi schemes.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#178

Post by adolph » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

lpa22 wrote: post #11

> They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour. I strongly believe bitcoin will be the new gold one day, if it doesn't pan out as a currency. It sounds insane, but I actually believe the Winklevoss twins when they say Elon and SpaceX will be able to mine gold on asteroids within the next 20 years, which would crash the price of gol…

Mining gold on asteroids will likely be more expensive than mining on this planet. If mining gold on asteroids crash the price of gold, who would mine gold from asteroids?

On the other hand, if one were to buy proven gold reserves stored on an asteroid, then that might make sense. The exploration company could discount the value of the gold by the existing cost of sending it to Earth and the ongoing cost of guarding it which will necessary given an absence of enforceable property rights. As the cost of terrestrializing shrinks and potential value of off-Earth use grows the value of the asteroid stored gold would increase over time.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#179

Post by rabuse » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

coz131 wrote: post #142

PanosJee wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing all those ERC20 tokens to Bitcoin is like comparing a Wix website to Google / Facebook

How about non ERC20 token? So a WIX website isn't as legitimate as Google/FB? Who is this arbiter of legitimacy?

Is this a joke? Show me a Wix website with the features and scalability of the giants.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#180

Post by User23 » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

imsd wrote: post #112

bb88 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But ETH is still tied to the dollar and that's where it gets its value, is in the comparison to the dollar. I don't accept ETH for a used car I'm going to sell. I accept dollars, though.

I'm not sure I understand. You could denominate ETH in dollars, yen, euros, gold, or any other form of money/currency. Although USD might be your preferred, many would happily sell a vehicle for compensation in BTC, ETH, silver, gold, euros, etc.

You can denominate ETH in whatever you want, but come April 15th you’d better exchange enough for dollars to meet your dollar denominated tax obligation.