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Bitcoin is a Ponzi

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Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#161

Post by MelonTree »

glenvdb wrote: post #51

A lot of the "Common Objections" relate to the REASONS people choose to own Bitcoin and how those cases make it a Ponzi. There are many different reasons to own Bitcoin, however the author seems to only view it through the lens of someone living in a wealthy and developed country with financial stability. The properties of it being difficult/impossible to confiscate and its privacy make it valuable in oppressive regi…

I got involved in bitcoin after being blackballed from the (US) financial world while for 2-3 months while I was "investigated" in the most dystopianly opaque way possible. One day I lost the ability to transact. A few months later I got it back. Had it not been for good friends who could cover my expenses, I could have easily ended up homeless. And the most shocking part of it all, was that I was merely collateral damage -- I had done nothing to piss off any of the powers to be.

It made me quickly appreciate that a persons ability to transact while not quite a human right, isn't too far from it either. There is no way the government (or financial world) should hold the power to wreck someone with no accountability. Bitcoin as I see it, is a way to shift the balance of power somewhere closer to where it belongs.

I don't hold bitcoin because I think it'll go up in value, I hold it because I don't want someone to tell me I can't pay rent because ... well they can't tell me why, because "sorry, I don't have access to that information"

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#162

Post by acomjean »

echelon wrote: post #46
dhsysusbsjsi wrote: post #9

I think this is simplistic. It’s viewing Bitcoin through a lens of a traditional Ponzi scheme assuming people that trade their fiat currency for Bitcoin are investing, with a view to one day take profits back into dollars. What if people are seeing discussion of minting a trillion dollar coin, trillions in QE, 25% of all dollars created in the last 12 months…and concluding that fiat currency is in an endgame and they…

Quantum computing is going to bring this entire house down. Money without an army is just paper. Or, in this case, imaginary numbers. There will be no one to cry to when the machines start cracking all the hashes and wipe away the entire ecosystem. I'd wager the NSA already has this capability, but they won't blow it on something so stupid.

I see your point.

But if quantum computers start breaking encryption, crypto currency is probably pretty low on the list of worries…

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#163

Post by zacmps »

jliptzin wrote: post #147

Bitcoin is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The fact that it satisfies a certain set of conditions of a Ponzi scheme does not invalidate the myriad current and future applications of crypto. The social security administration could also be considered a Ponzi scheme, but it still provides tremendous value to a lot of people.

I'm sorry, what applications? Besides accelerating global warming there doesn't seem to be anything it's good at.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#164

Post by GauntletWizard »

everfree wrote: post #131
amin wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many cryptocurrencies who are nearly identical to Bitcoin, except that most don't have the widespread fame and support. In 2019 alone, 90,000 new crypto-currencies were created. Yes, there will only be 21 million bitcoins, but there are already countless, nearly an infite amount of copycat coins. This is not the case with gold.

> This is not the case with gold. Silver, platinum, palladium, rhodium, copper... Just as people have generally centered around gold, people have so far generally centered on Bitcoin. There's a great deal of other metals and a great deal of other cryptocurrencies, but if nobody really cares about them, then they are not relevant to the conversation.

Gold has actual use. At minimum, gold is worth the value of it's conductivity properties, or of it's high malleability, high density, low reactivity and low toxicity, or it's pretty looks. Bitcoin has none of those going for it except maybe the looks (to anyone who has a copy of the "pretty" Blockchain)

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#165

Post by px43 »

arthurcolle wrote: post #73
echelon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quantum computing is going to bring this entire house down. Money without an army is just paper. Or, in this case, imaginary numbers. There will be no one to cry to when the machines start cracking all the hashes and wipe away the entire ecosystem. I'd wager the NSA already has this capability, but they won't blow it on something so stupid.

They'll make new quantum proof encryption - isn't this an active area of cryptography research? JQI at UMD, NIST's Quantum Computing Group - these teams must be doing something with all the grant money

QRL is a thing https://www.theqrl.org

It uses XMSS, and does it fairly well.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#166

Post by justicezyx »

You are not going to convince people who already dumped billions dollar into this thing. You better invent a bitcoin killer or ask governments to shut it down. Ponzi as a concept is unaware to most bitcoin holder.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#168

Post by bb88 »

jliptzin wrote: post #147

Bitcoin is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The fact that it satisfies a certain set of conditions of a Ponzi scheme does not invalidate the myriad current and future applications of crypto. The social security administration could also be considered a Ponzi scheme, but it still provides tremendous value to a lot of people.

> The social security administration could also be considered a Ponzi scheme, but it still provides tremendous value to a lot of people.

Government runs a debt and finances it on the bond market with US Treasuries. That's not a ponzi scheme.

Edit: Not sure why the downvotes, but it's true and will continue to be true in the forseeable future.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#169

Post by satoshiiii »

aidanlister wrote: post #25
bpodgursky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of people who are "investing" in Bitcoin right now not out of expectation of real gains, but as a way to maintain assets against an inflating dollar... nominal gains, but not real ones.

This is not true: you don't invest in something with 20% weekly swings to "maintain assets" against 1-3% inflation. You just don't.

Haha, yes if you're just a "weekly" investor. But for me who invested years ago, my assets begs to differ. Back then there were people I know personally that like you who also said that it's a bad idea to invest in crypto, I'm very glad I didn't listen to them haha. Now I just tell them it is not yet too late before global adoption.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#170

Post by ChainOfFools »

lpa22 wrote: post #11

> They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour. I strongly believe bitcoin will be the new gold one day, if it doesn't pan out as a currency. It sounds insane, but I actually believe the Winklevoss twins when they say Elon and SpaceX will be able to mine gold on asteroids within the next 20 years, which would crash the price of gol…

> Elon and SpaceX will be able to mine gold on asteroids within the next 20 years, which would crash the price of gold.

what would be their incentive to do it, then?

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