Bitcoin is a Ponzi • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#121

Post by seibelj » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:26 AM UTC

amin wrote: post #107

bugzz wrote: post #93

> By that definition, gold too is a ponzi. No, gold clearly fails to satisfy that definition on two counts. > First, few if any gold investors have expectations of profits. They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour. I believe Bitcoin has potential to become the "new" gold. It's better in many ways. Does that mean I can only buy…

There are many cryptocurrencies who are nearly identical to Bitcoin, except that most don't have the widespread fame and support. In 2019 alone, 90,000 new crypto-currencies were created. Yes, there will only be 21 million bitcoins, but there are already countless, nearly an infite amount of copycat coins. This is not the case with gold.

There is silver, and platinum, and tungsten, etc. etc. It’s the same thing just in a physical format.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#122

Post by dosenbrot » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

sailingparrot wrote: post #52

dhsysusbsjsi wrote: post #9

I think this is simplistic. It’s viewing Bitcoin through a lens of a traditional Ponzi scheme assuming people that trade their fiat currency for Bitcoin are investing, with a view to one day take profits back into dollars. What if people are seeing discussion of minting a trillion dollar coin, trillions in QE, 25% of all dollars created in the last 12 months…and concluding that fiat currency is in an endgame and they…

> What if people are seeing [...] What if my grandmother had wheels? More seriously, how many people do you know are seeing what you are talking about? Everyone I know that invested in crypto did so hoping to trade it back later on for more fiat than they paid. Sure, maybe it's a biased sample, but it's a sizeable sample and I do not know even a single person that traded their fiat for crypto definitly.

How about the stock market? Everyone I know that invested in stocks did so hoping to trade it back later on for more fiat than they paid.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#123

Post by yunohn » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

baby wrote: post #115

yunohn wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in exchange for goods Generally speaking, the people who provide the goods, use fiat for production of the good, and convert the crypto back into fiat to realize profits.

We don’t have data and what if they convert back into fiat? Would you say that foreign workers who get paid in USD and send money back home only use USD as a ponzi?

You don’t need data to see plainly that the vast majority of goods are obtained with fiat. As such, someone selling goods for crypto has no choice but to use fiat as well.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#124

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

glenvdb wrote: post #51

A lot of the "Common Objections" relate to the REASONS people choose to own Bitcoin and how those cases make it a Ponzi. There are many different reasons to own Bitcoin, however the author seems to only view it through the lens of someone living in a wealthy and developed country with financial stability. The properties of it being difficult/impossible to confiscate and its privacy make it valuable in oppressive regi…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#125

Post by baby » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

sslayer wrote: post #29

sockfish wrote: post #3

"By that definition the USD is a ponzi. No, national currencies too fail to fit the definition, because people do not "invest" in them with the expectation of gain" <-- The 6.6trillion/day forex market begs to differ.

Nobody "invest" in USD. You invest in assets which you expect to appreciate. People investing in Bitcoin do so expecting to control a portion of a finite supply, which defeats its purpose of liquidity.

Tell that to my coworkers who converted all their euros to usd.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#126

Post by sanxiyn » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

sslayer wrote: post #29

sockfish wrote: post #3

"By that definition the USD is a ponzi. No, national currencies too fail to fit the definition, because people do not "invest" in them with the expectation of gain" <-- The 6.6trillion/day forex market begs to differ.

Nobody "invest" in USD. You invest in assets which you expect to appreciate. People investing in Bitcoin do so expecting to control a portion of a finite supply, which defeats its purpose of liquidity.

People absolutely invest in USD, in expectation of appreciation. South Korean banks sell saving accounts denominated in USD as an investment product. Money flows into it when USD appreciates and flows out when it depreciates.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#127

Post by bb88 » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

bugzz wrote: post #93

> By that definition, gold too is a ponzi. No, gold clearly fails to satisfy that definition on two counts. > First, few if any gold investors have expectations of profits. They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour. I believe Bitcoin has potential to become the "new" gold. It's better in many ways. Does that mean I can only buy…

I can exchange dollars for either other dollars or gold. Neither of which necessarily need the goodness (or greed) of society to constantly care and feed it.

Banks existed long before the internet did, and in a post-apocalyptic crunch we could always go back.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#128

Post by mrorbitman » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:28 AM UTC

> Thus the investors, as a whole, are always in the red, and their collective loss only increases with time

How is this true of bitcoin investors? When bitcoin price action is near all time highs, most bitcoin investors are not in the red.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#129

Post by justapassenger » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:28 AM UTC

glenvdb wrote: post #51

A lot of the "Common Objections" relate to the REASONS people choose to own Bitcoin and how those cases make it a Ponzi. There are many different reasons to own Bitcoin, however the author seems to only view it through the lens of someone living in a wealthy and developed country with financial stability. The properties of it being difficult/impossible to confiscate and its privacy make it valuable in oppressive regi…

I find it very manipulative to use people suffering as an excuse to pump speculative assets.

Sure, there’s very tiny amount of people who use Bitcoin as you described. But so there’re people who get benefits from smoking.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#130

Post by PanosJee » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 4:28 AM UTC

amin wrote: post #107

bugzz wrote: post #93

> By that definition, gold too is a ponzi. No, gold clearly fails to satisfy that definition on two counts. > First, few if any gold investors have expectations of profits. They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour. I believe Bitcoin has potential to become the "new" gold. It's better in many ways. Does that mean I can only buy…

There are many cryptocurrencies who are nearly identical to Bitcoin, except that most don't have the widespread fame and support. In 2019 alone, 90,000 new crypto-currencies were created. Yes, there will only be 21 million bitcoins, but there are already countless, nearly an infite amount of copycat coins. This is not the case with gold.

Comparing all those ERC20 tokens to Bitcoin is like comparing a Wix website to Google / Facebook