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Bitcoin is a Ponzi

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Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#101

Post by sanxiyn »

amin wrote: post #17
sockfish wrote: post #3

"By that definition the USD is a ponzi. No, national currencies too fail to fit the definition, because people do not "invest" in them with the expectation of gain" <-- The 6.6trillion/day forex market begs to differ.

The payoffs in FX trades do not come from "new investment money", so it fails an important Ponzi scheme criteria. Having said that, speculating on FX is a zero-sum game, which I'm not generally in favor of.

It totally does? USD appreciates when people want to hold USD more, i.e. when new investment money is flowing into USD.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#102

Post by foolfoolz »

bugzz wrote: post #93

> By that definition, gold too is a ponzi. No, gold clearly fails to satisfy that definition on two counts. > First, few if any gold investors have expectations of profits. They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour. I believe Bitcoin has potential to become the "new" gold. It's better in many ways. Does that mean I can only buy…

gold has no value to typical people. i can’t walk into a store and buy with gold. i can’t use gold for any purpose in day to day life. it’s an asset

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#103

Post by zenbai »

seibelj wrote: post #16

Judging by the attitude on HN, cryptocurrency should be worth $0 and written off years ago. Instead it's bigger than ever and the most important people on earth are focusing on it. Somehow it's simultaneously an incredible, useless scam but is so powerful that we must ban it at all costs! HN doesn't know everything, do your own research, use your own logic.

You're being downvoted but I completely agree.

It's funny how people on HN which are likely some of the first people in the world to know about bitcoin (eg. since it was only at $100 or less) keep upvoting articles like this for years now.

I think these people deep down know that they missed an amazing chance by not investing in bitcoin (and other cryptocurrencies) years ago, so articles like this make them feel better about it and lets them justify not investing in bitcoin to themselves.

But then in a few years bitcoin 5xs again and then they realize if they bought it at todays price would still have made them massive profit.

But then they see a new article saying bitcoin is a ponzi and upvote it and feel good about themselves again.

Oh but they have to downvote any comments like yours too.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#104

Post by qaq »

sien wrote: post #18
Swizec wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t forex kind of a joke to everyone? Hearing your friend got into Forex is about the same as when they get into Amway, Tupperware, DoTerra, or Herbalife …

George Soros would like a word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

The fact that you can name notable exceptions is only reinforces the general rule

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#105

Post by Imnimo »

dhsysusbsjsi wrote: post #9

I think this is simplistic. It’s viewing Bitcoin through a lens of a traditional Ponzi scheme assuming people that trade their fiat currency for Bitcoin are investing, with a view to one day take profits back into dollars. What if people are seeing discussion of minting a trillion dollar coin, trillions in QE, 25% of all dollars created in the last 12 months…and concluding that fiat currency is in an endgame and they…

What percentage of the current value of Bitcoin do you believe is driven by demand from people with that outlook?

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#106

Post by yunohn »

dvt wrote: post #61

People use BTC/ETH/etc. in exchange for goods . I mean, I'm not a fan of cryptocurrency, but calling it a Ponzi scheme is just wrong. There are plenty of shitcoins out there that are purely pump and dumps, but it seems like BTC is here to stay.

> in exchange for goods

Generally speaking, the people who provide the goods, use fiat for production of the good, and convert the crypto back into fiat to realize profits.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#107

Post by amin »

bugzz wrote: post #93

> By that definition, gold too is a ponzi. No, gold clearly fails to satisfy that definition on two counts. > First, few if any gold investors have expectations of profits. They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour. I believe Bitcoin has potential to become the "new" gold. It's better in many ways. Does that mean I can only buy…

There are many cryptocurrencies who are nearly identical to Bitcoin, except that most don't have the widespread fame and support. In 2019 alone, 90,000 new crypto-currencies were created. Yes, there will only be 21 million bitcoins, but there are already countless, nearly an infite amount of copycat coins.

This is not the case with gold.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#108

Post by mrorbitman »

Aaronstotle wrote: post #49
dhsysusbsjsi wrote: post #9

I think this is simplistic. It’s viewing Bitcoin through a lens of a traditional Ponzi scheme assuming people that trade their fiat currency for Bitcoin are investing, with a view to one day take profits back into dollars. What if people are seeing discussion of minting a trillion dollar coin, trillions in QE, 25% of all dollars created in the last 12 months…and concluding that fiat currency is in an endgame and they…

I agree with your sentiment, however I wouldn't use Michael Saylor's quotes as strong ground to stand on, he also said BTC can scale to millions of transactions per second which is impossible. IMO he comes off a grifter who needed to save his company and kept buying loads of BTC to start the "institutions are buying" FOMO.

> he also said BTC can scale to millions of transactions per second which is impossible

He's probably referring to the lightning network, which is theoretically capable of handling millions or even someday billions of bitcoin transactions per second.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#109

Post by Zamicol »

Jorge Stolfi has been a bitcoin doomsayer for years.

The author published these in 2014:

https://ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/bitcoin-beggar-1024.pn... https://ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2014-03-02-ShortHistor...

Bitcoin ended 2014 around $378.

I think it's proved it's staying power. Let's move on.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#110

Post by programmarchy »

bb88 wrote: post #55
tshaddox wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably because people are currently most familiar with the price of everything else in dollars.

Dollars are accepted everywhere. BTC is not. Edit: Not sure why the downvotes, but it's still true and still likely true for the forseeable future.

For now. Wayne Gretzky has a quote about this.
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