"By that definition, stocks too are ponzis. No. Stocks have an external source of revenue, namely the profit that the company makes by selling its products and services to customers..." This is a very simplistic view of equities markets and does not explain penny stocks, meme stocks (GME/AMC), TSLA, and other things that seem to escape traditional fundamental analyses.
The vast majority of equities by value are not penny stocks or meme stocks.
Bitcoin is a Ponzi
71–80 of 684 posts
Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi
#72I think this is simplistic. It’s viewing Bitcoin through a lens of a traditional Ponzi scheme assuming people that trade their fiat currency for Bitcoin are investing, with a view to one day take profits back into dollars. What if people are seeing discussion of minting a trillion dollar coin, trillions in QE, 25% of all dollars created in the last 12 months…and concluding that fiat currency is in an endgame and they…
Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi
#73I think this is simplistic. It’s viewing Bitcoin through a lens of a traditional Ponzi scheme assuming people that trade their fiat currency for Bitcoin are investing, with a view to one day take profits back into dollars. What if people are seeing discussion of minting a trillion dollar coin, trillions in QE, 25% of all dollars created in the last 12 months…and concluding that fiat currency is in an endgame and they…
Quantum computing is going to bring this entire house down. Money without an army is just paper. Or, in this case, imaginary numbers. There will be no one to cry to when the machines start cracking all the hashes and wipe away the entire ecosystem. I'd wager the NSA already has this capability, but they won't blow it on something so stupid.
JQI at UMD, NIST's Quantum Computing Group - these teams must be doing something with all the grant money
Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it's not about cashing out then why is the primary hype mechanism talking about the dollar-equivalent value of anything crypto related? Why does it matter if an NFT was sold for $300k worth of ether?
Blame financial news media, things like Fortune magazine's list of new crypto billionaires. The author of this blog post's claim that 99.99% of people in crypto are only participating because of expectations of future profit is unsourced and a fiction that he has created based on preconceived notions. Don't participate if you don't want - I like participating in a system that isn't being tracked by agencies especiall…
The crypto financial news community was writing about this long before Fortune picked it up.
Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi
#75Yes, Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme (by virtue of people making it so), but that does not, nor should it, imply that the only thing Bitcoin is, is a Ponzi scheme.
Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme in the same way that sociopaths exist in the game of geeks, mops, and sociopaths: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths
It's part of the ethos but does not describe the whole ethos, and trivializing Bitcoin to a Ponzi scheme is the wrong answer. As, honestly, is trying to defend that Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme.
Irrespective of how value is in practice (or volume) making its way through the system is different from the system itself.
There are several promising elements of Bitcoin which contribute to its value. One is sheer access and connectedness (e.g. Metcalfe's law). People use facebook (its valuation reflects this) or pay for a phone plan because connecting to the Internet is a synecdoche for ubiquitous access. Creating a fabric where people in any country may work for a company, irrespective of its location, is a paradigm shift from what we had previously. Today, working for a US company from Taiwan is a legitimate challenge & deterrent.
There are many such examples, where transparent ledgers for instance may increase trust between parties and give people more confidence in financial robustness. All of these things have intrinsic value, just as the architecture which is PageRank has value for Google.
A common mistake I hear is for people to point to these advantages as if to suggest that it is without flaws or incapable of flaws, when we -- the people using the system -- are quite fallible and driven by prisoner's dilemma-type incentives which may by no means be long-term efficient or equitable (given we're all in the same boat). And I think these social challenges should be noted and not discounted on behalf of "technology being good enough".
So, I think this is a case of "Yes and".
Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi
#76I was just now seeing the first video of https://a16z.com/crypto-startup-school/ . Whole video is about how blockchain is awesome because Computer, Internet and Mobile were awesome. Followed by some answers about how we don't know of any use case right now. Is there any non currency use case of blockchain?
The purpose of blockchain is decentralised consensus for the Bitcoin protocol. It has fulfilled that function very well for the last ~12 years.
There MAY be other legitimate use cases, but the majority of them right now are varying degrees of money grabbing scams or cargo-cults.
Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi
#77Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it's not about cashing out then why is the primary hype mechanism talking about the dollar-equivalent value of anything crypto related? Why does it matter if an NFT was sold for $300k worth of ether?
Blame financial news media, things like Fortune magazine's list of new crypto billionaires. The author of this blog post's claim that 99.99% of people in crypto are only participating because of expectations of future profit is unsourced and a fiction that he has created based on preconceived notions. Don't participate if you don't want - I like participating in a system that isn't being tracked by agencies especiall…
Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi
#79I think this is simplistic. It’s viewing Bitcoin through a lens of a traditional Ponzi scheme assuming people that trade their fiat currency for Bitcoin are investing, with a view to one day take profits back into dollars. What if people are seeing discussion of minting a trillion dollar coin, trillions in QE, 25% of all dollars created in the last 12 months…and concluding that fiat currency is in an endgame and they…
Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi
#80Judging by the attitude on HN, cryptocurrency should be worth $0 and written off years ago. Instead it's bigger than ever and the most important people on earth are focusing on it. Somehow it's simultaneously an incredible, useless scam but is so powerful that we must ban it at all costs! HN doesn't know everything, do your own research, use your own logic.
I love HN but have watched for years as much in the community have completely missed the boat on crypto and blockchain. It's a strange disconnect...
This whole thing is just bringing the level of discourse here down, and I've been on HN for a long time.