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Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

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Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#41

Post by Alex3917 »

Rexatron wrote: post #38
true_religion wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're willing to throw out a "pharma grade street drug" then wouldn't you be willing to throw out any pharma-grade drugs that are used directly on the street such as codeine, morphine, Valium, Vicodin, and any other broad spectrum pain reliever.

Not pain meds for legit pain. But as a ex-addict of benzos I would restrict those to epileptic patients... The data on benzos for mania, depression, and suicide is scary. Long term use has terrible effects. Most docs don't prescribe the heavy ones for psychiatry anymore. Seizures are a different story.

"Most docs don't prescribe the heavy ones for psychiatry anymore. Seizures are a different story."

Benzos have actually made a huge comeback recently, and are quickly catching up to their peak prescription levels in 1975. In 2009, benzos were 3 of the top 20 most-prescribed psychiatric drugs prescribed in the US:

1. Alprazolam (Xanax) 44,029,000

3. Lorazepam (Ativan) 25,868,00

10. Diazepam (Valium) 14,009,000

There were 83 million prescriptions for benzos written in 2007, as compared with 103 million at their peak in 1975. (Granted there are more people today, but still.)

source: http://www.erowid.org/general/newsletter/erowid_newsletter18...

(And also Anatomy of an Epidemic, p. 131)

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#43

Post by antihero »

Rexatron wrote: post #8

As a child of 8 years old, I was given 120MG of Ritalin per day. I rarely slept the first 2 years. If I did it was around 6am for an hour or so. Then I had to take my morning dose for school. They also wanted me to take a pill to sleep, which felt so horrible I cannot even explain it. I was a zombie in the morning if I took it, then onto the morning ritalin dose. I would just do pushups in my room until 3am some nigh…

120mg? Damn, that's incredible, I was on 40 a day ish throughout school in the form of Ritalin.

I've had the same issues in 6th form and university, failed my degree. In part due to lazyness and drinking, but also because I simply cannot "absorb" knowledge from sitting in a lecture hall watching someone speak for ages. I learn interactively - I did amazingly well at practicals and projects where I had a constant feedback loop (such as debugging a robot), but lectures and exams I feel are an exceptionally perverse way of learning things.

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#44

Post by tomlin »

Rexatron wrote: post #16
tomlin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're getting into a debate of whether medications can have other effects than intended, I cannot argue that. ADHD and ADD should be treated in completely different ways. People diagnosed with ADHD have a much higher chance of psychotic symptoms than those who are only of the inattentive type. Then there is the old saying, "if you've seen one child with ADHD, you've seen one child with ADHD." In my experience, and…

Your experience is yours. How long have you been on medication? What medication specifically? I've heard that some new meds are not stimulant. They might be good. But the old Ritalin/Adderall stimulants have quite possibly caused the psychotic symptoms you are talking about. That's what they do. Are you familiar with street meth? Ritlain/Adderall are pharma grade long duration forms of that. They have made me crazy b…

> How long have you been on medication? What medication specifically?

I'm on Concerta. It's effectiveness outweighs Ritalin according to most. I've never used Ritalin or RitalinXR nor would I, since much better drugs have evolved, and will continue to evolve.

> Are you familiar with street meth? Ritlain/Adderall are pharma grade long duration forms of that.

I'm not going to try and make a case against your experience, since you could have very well had a negative experience with stimulants. One thing I know for certain, is that Ritalin/Adderall/Concerta are not the same as street meth - by any stretch of the imagination. Just because they are derived from certain drugs doesn't mean their potency, effect or side effects should be the same.

> Artificial increases in motivation are silly. If you aren't inspired on your own to do something, you probably should be doing something else.

For me, I get really sparked up about what I am doing but tend to have trouble executing the details because I'm getting overwhelmed with the overall concept. Does that mean I should walk away from an industry I love? Or are you saying I secretly don't love it?

> There are ways to handle ADD/ADHD without drugs. Change the environment.

ADD/ADHD should be a multifaceted approach and shouldn't lean on any specific treatment. Some may be better suited for behavioural therapy and meditation. Others may find themselves performing fine with medication with some extra fish oil. Regardless, everyone should explore all avenues to get a good understanding of how the condition effects the patient.

> Forcing kids to take meth is just wrong.

Firstly, no one should be forcing their children to take anything. The process should be more of: "Do you feel that you can concentrate better, or have a better sense of being while on this medication?" If the answer is "No", then obviously your child stops the medication. The child actually gets a say in the matter.

Now if you want to talk about forced treatment, examine for a minute, circumcision - wrong on all fronts. There is now no plausible reason for people in the developed world to have this procedure done and yet it is being done around the clock without any permission from the human being its being done to.

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#45

Post by tomlin »

flatline wrote: post #27
tomlin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're getting into a debate of whether medications can have other effects than intended, I cannot argue that. ADHD and ADD should be treated in completely different ways. People diagnosed with ADHD have a much higher chance of psychotic symptoms than those who are only of the inattentive type. Then there is the old saying, "if you've seen one child with ADHD, you've seen one child with ADHD." In my experience, and…

This highlights the problem in my mind. We're not dealing with very well-grounded science here, we're dealing with statistical improvements from a shotgun approach to medication for a set of somewhat subjective symptoms. Most people who take the drugs are going to get decent results for a while. Some people will get great result for a long time. Unfortunately this leaves everyone else.

I agree with the shotgun analogy, it is certainly true. Hopefully advancements in individual genome sequencing and the advancement of personalized medication seeks to improve upon this point.

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#48

Post by bugsy »

> Children with ADHD have a significantly higher rate of missing or duplicated DNA segments compared to other children

The problem with this study is they looked at kids who had been diagnosed and were on long term drug therapy. This is similar to studies that show that ADHD diagnosees on long term drug therapy have "brain damage", which matches the brain damage of long term stimulant users. The findings are not an indicator of ADHD, they are indicators of brain and genetic damage from long term drug use.

Much more effective than Ritalin, and safer, for treating ADHD is the prescription drug Desoxyn. It's not used as much because of the stigma of taking methamphetamine hydrochloride. I mention this because everyone agrees that methamphetamine is not an innocuous drug to take long term, the same goes for Ritalin, they both have very similar effects on brain chemistry.

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#49

Post by Rexatron »

Alex3917 wrote: post #41
Rexatron wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not pain meds for legit pain. But as a ex-addict of benzos I would restrict those to epileptic patients... The data on benzos for mania, depression, and suicide is scary. Long term use has terrible effects. Most docs don't prescribe the heavy ones for psychiatry anymore. Seizures are a different story.

"Most docs don't prescribe the heavy ones for psychiatry anymore. Seizures are a different story." Benzos have actually made a huge comeback recently, and are quickly catching up to their peak prescription levels in 1975. In 2009, benzos were 3 of the top 20 most-prescribed psychiatric drugs prescribed in the US: 1. Alprazolam (Xanax) 44,029,000 3. Lorazepam (Ativan) 25,868,00 10. Diazepam (Valium) 14,009,000 There w…

That is scary.

My experience,when I was addicted, was that I couldn't find a doc to prescribe them for me. Was it the dead-faced junkie staring back that prevented it? Probably.

It's sad they are so heavily prescribed again, because I know how it feels to rely on a pill to stop the pain and get out of my own head/anxiety. I'm lucky to have found another way.

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