Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make

#101

Post by ameister14 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

i_haz_rabies wrote: post #74

FredPret wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like how the top 10% pays 71% of the taxes and the bottom 10% are net receivers of government money?

That seems like it lands in the distribution ballpark the comment above was referring to, yes. The poorest 10% not paying very much in taxes is a feature of the system. And assuming your figures are correct, that 71% might look like a lot until you consider that the marginal tax rate for the very rich is very, very low in the United States compared to other developed countries, or even the United States prior to the…

A lot of people make the marginal taxes prior to Reagan argument but seem to dismiss, either through lack of knowledge or purposeful removal, the fact that prior to Reagan there were an incredible array of tax loopholes that lowered the effective tax rate, regardless of the stated tax rate.

The effective tax rate for the highest earners right now is not all that different than it was from the 50's to the 90's.

The thing that's changed is actually the effective rate on the bottom 50% - those taxes have increased.

Re: Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make

#102

Post by winternett » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

Yet somehow the majority of streamers on the platform make absolutely nothing...

Wealth inequality is underlying in "creator fund" money making as well. The algorithms are skewed towards people that are already rich, popular, and/or well connected. The few people that make it up the ladder from humble beginnings might well be people who were let in to cover the real underpinnings of non-transparent creator economies.

Those few "came up from nothing" success stories may literally well be false encouragement or fabrication just to keep platform engagement and related consumerism up.

Kind of like your friend who invites you over to play video games but they really just want you to watch them while they play because they only have one controller they'll never let you touch.

What you choose to support and invest in matters too.

Re: Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make

#103

Post by andy_jensen » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

mrep wrote: post #68

chrsig wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really fair to reduce it to dick measuring when there's just a ridiculously enormous class divide.

All my friends have STEM or business degrees and I'm pretty sure I make 2-6x more than every one of them because I work at a top paying software company. I don't want to talk about that.

The notion that you earn 6 times more than your peers is also absurd. You dont work 6 times as hard/much and your time isn't 6 times more valuable than your friends. In my ideal world everyone made the same amount of money since we are all equal. Then you would get your software degree to avoid collecting garbage or wiping old people in a nursery home. Now think of CEO's making 100x other people

Re: Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make

#104

Post by i_haz_rabies » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

FredPret wrote: post #97

i_haz_rabies wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It implies that there's way, way too much wealth in the top 10% if the bottom 90% is only supplying 29% of the tax revenue. I don't think too many people, at least in other developed countries, are looking at the United States and thinking "wow, I wish my country was more like the United States." Usually such comparisons are made to the Scandinavian countries.

A statement like “too much wealth in population group x” can only come from someone with utopian ideas about how society “ought” to be structured, especially since population group x seems to be the source of this wealth. What moral system informed these utopian ideas? Why does everyone have an obligation to subscribe to it? If the rest of the world wants to hand arbitrary taxation power to some bureaucrats in pursui…

What alternative is there to utopian ideas? Status quo? It's not working for most people anymore. I'm not saying we should radically change society, but if Jeff Bezos and Amazon aren't paying taxes, there is something wrong and it should be fixed.

Re: Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make

#105

Post by i_haz_rabies » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:11 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #101

i_haz_rabies wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like it lands in the distribution ballpark the comment above was referring to, yes. The poorest 10% not paying very much in taxes is a feature of the system. And assuming your figures are correct, that 71% might look like a lot until you consider that the marginal tax rate for the very rich is very, very low in the United States compared to other developed countries, or even the United States prior to the…

A lot of people make the marginal taxes prior to Reagan argument but seem to dismiss, either through lack of knowledge or purposeful removal, the fact that prior to Reagan there were an incredible array of tax loopholes that lowered the effective tax rate, regardless of the stated tax rate. The effective tax rate for the highest earners right now is not all that different than it was from the 50's to the 90's. The th…

I'll take your word for it (I'm in the lack of knowledge camp), but I don't see this as an argument for not raising the marginal (and if we do it right, effective) tax rate on the very wealthy.

Re: Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make

#106

Post by jollybean » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:14 PM UTC

winternett wrote: post #102

Yet somehow the majority of streamers on the platform make absolutely nothing... Wealth inequality is underlying in "creator fund" money making as well. The algorithms are skewed towards people that are already rich, popular, and/or well connected. The few people that make it up the ladder from humble beginnings might well be people who were let in to cover the real underpinnings of non-transparent creator economies.…

This is really an upside down take.

1) The skill/ability curve is going to look really consistent with the earnings curve, just like in anything, similar to sports.

2) 'Creators fund' is marginal - having a few extra dollars for a microphone is not going to bring in more viewers for a stream. Far from 'false economy' it's probably something akin to very efficient. If there is inefficiency, it's about who is highlighted by the platform.

3) Barriers to entry are very low, and every joe blow is nipping at the heels of established streamers, many of whom have spent a long time building their audiences.

4) This should be thought of more like athleticism: it's popularity, brand, personality and skill, it's populist and short-lived, very risky, and extremely competitive/open to anyone.

" like your friend who invites you over to play video games but they really just want you to watch them while they play because they only have one controller they'll never let you touch." Well this is some cynical stuff, I'm not sure what to say.

Re: Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make

#107

Post by warent » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

andy_jensen wrote: post #103

mrep wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All my friends have STEM or business degrees and I'm pretty sure I make 2-6x more than every one of them because I work at a top paying software company. I don't want to talk about that.

The notion that you earn 6 times more than your peers is also absurd. You dont work 6 times as hard/much and your time isn't 6 times more valuable than your friends. In my ideal world everyone made the same amount of money since we are all equal. Then you would get your software degree to avoid collecting garbage or wiping old people in a nursery home. Now think of CEO's making 100x other people

I have a communist buddy who runs a profit pool with like 4 other people where they share an office doing different (often unrelated) work and combine/evenly distribute all of their income/paychecks.

Ever since meeting him, I'm automatically skeptical that most people are just reciting platitudes without much real belief behind it.

Re: Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make

#108

Post by lijogdfljk » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #96

lijogdfljk wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, how difficult is it to migrate to Scandinavia as an American? I've long felt the ideals i cherish as an American are just not the ideals of America. Maybe America isn't wrong, i'm just not American. I want: A country which values it's citizens health and happiness in measurable, quantifiable ways. A country which ensures it's citizens can be educated and follow their passions to financial success. A…

If you can easily migrate to Scandinavia from America, then you are almost certainly a well educated, talented, wealthy American who will not be subject to any of the vagaries of life that poor Americans may need to deal with. Healthcare, education, housing, and lifestyle are all top notch for the set of Americans that can easily emigrate to other first-world countries. In fact, you will find that it is much more com…

> If you can easily migrate to Scandinavia from America, then you are almost certainly a well educated, talented, wealthy American who will not be subject to any of the vagaries of life that poor Americans may need to deal with. Healthcare, education, housing, and lifestyle are all top notch for the set of Americans that can easily emigrate to other first-world countries.

I maybe am. No formal education, but self taught and we live very comfortably.

However this isn't about "me". I want a country that feels like it's trying to do better for all. America seems very selfish to me. I want to aid and support a government that actively works towards the bullet points i mentioned, not against.

Re: Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make

#109

Post by walshemj » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

bityard wrote: post #32

errantspark wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine a society that doesn't value privacy functioning much better than ours if the lack of privacy is somehow thoroughly universalized. Secrets allow for concentration of power, something we should avoid. That being said I'm well aware of how load bearing "somehow thoroughly universalized" is in my statement. Perhaps it's only possible in a culture that truly rejects secret keeping as deeply harmful from an…

There is no freedom without privacy, full stop.

Its also covered in the:

Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Article 12)

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (Article 17)

Re: Twitch Hack of 135 GB of Data Includes How Much Its Biggest Streamers Make

#110

Post by wongarsu » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #82

causi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright law, just at a baseline.

Copyright may be violated by uploading (rather than downloading), but even then Twitch would need to show that you caused them monetary damages and sue you in a civil court. I'm not sure what "at a baseline" means. If you know of other specific legal violations then name them, so we can discuss it.

With torrents, every downloader is also uploading data, that's the point of torrents. You could theoretically configure your client with an upload cap of 0, but good luck proofing in court that you did that.