Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party • Hacker News Board

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#581

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

ordinaryradical wrote: post #506

Loughla wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is very unpopular in the US in those who regularly vote in primaries. The primary decides the race, for many, many elections. The presidential race is not exempt from this, either. To draw enough primary voters to make the ballot in one of the two major parties, candidates are, increasingly, needing to take extreme stances on most social and economic issues. (for example, look at how many people came out for T…

Yang explains this exact issue so well here: https://youtu.be/-2O3JYaELW0?t=1038 This is part of the reason he and others will be pushing for structural changes, including open primaries, as central to the platform. Changing the mechanics of the elections is the only way to enable a return to centrism in the US.

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#582

Post by Miner49er » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

5etho wrote: post #219

mattowen_uk wrote: post #213

Am I misinformed? As non American, I was under the impression that there could only be two parties, and everyone else had to be independent?

yes you are, there a lot of parties, even communissm one's. But it's true they always lose due to neoliberalism of bliionaires and millionaires class just a take, also non americam, dont' know why green and liberals don't stand a chanc to go to congress

Yeah, but the Communist party is banned in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#583

Post by jimmygrapes » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

Needs to research his positions and messaging a little better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#584

Post by magwa101 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

Siphon of Dem votes.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#585

Post by jimmygrapes » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #512

rsynnott wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CDU/CSU aren't particularly socially progressive. That said, "grudgingly as socially progressive as the public demands we be, economically center-right" is pretty common in European politics; CDU/CSU are an example, as are FF and FG in Ireland.

That seems fine/palatable to me. And honestly, that's good leadership. Social policies should follow popular opinion and be flexible enough to shift ever few years. But economic policies may require unpopular actions to be taken. The population may not want higher interest rates, or a trade deal that kills a local factory. But those things might be for the greater good of everyone.

Counterpoint: California voted against gay marriage once upon a time, and overwhelmingly so. The popular (lack of) support was overridden by judicial activism. The rest of the country followed.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#586

Post by jimmygrapes » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 7:39 PM UTC

sakopov wrote: post #533

hef19898 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That American obsession with the founding fathers always puzzles me as a non-American. France is in tis 5th Republic, the second since WW2. Germany went through a lot of Government changes since the 18th century as well, as did a lot of other countries in Europe. With the exception of some wierdos nobody puts those long gone governments on a pedestal.

As someone who grew up under communism and has one remaining grandparent who fought fascism all the way to Berlin, I am puzzled how any seemingly complacent westerner can call the topic of "founding fathers" an obsession. I guess it's an obsession with the foundations of freedom? I wasn't born American, but I have embraced the fact that my life no longer feels like prison in the US and I truly think that calling Amer…

I truly believe that most people who dismiss the founding fathers as an obsession or otherwise irrelevant to modern day are also the same people who have never read any of the well-documented and freely available discussions they had about governance in general. Excluding technological and other scientific advancement, they really did think of almost everything. Even the oft-cited claim that the country was founded upon "Judeo-Christian values" is argued to death in their correspondence and shows that they were ultimately neutral and fantastically "tolerant"... so long as you take their words for their meanings at the time of their writing and not by modern renditions.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#587

Post by jimmygrapes » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

willhinsa wrote: post #389

Rooster61 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By repeatedly joining high profile political races, and repeatedly getting destroyed in them? Strange strategy there.

"Any publicity is good publicity."

Ironically a phrase made most famous by Donald Trump. It's going to be real interesting as politicians going forward analyze and adopt ideas often attributed to him while simultaneously trying to distance themselves from him.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#588

Post by cjpearson » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:03 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #477

netcan wrote: post #325

What's missing here, IMO, is a party. Who's with him? Do you have defectors from the 2 parties? Independents or popular figures joining up? Candidates being stood? A political party is not a manifesto, it's an organisation. I actually think there's room for a party to start gaining ground in the US. There are so many elected offices that the surface area is huge. Great for "guerilla tactics." IE, earning easy victori…

There is no room for a third party to start gaining ground in the US. We already have a third and fourth party - the Libertarian and Green parties - that have been trying to gain traction for years. Neither has been able to. The Greens came the closest with Nader in 2000. The reason for that is structural. The Democratic and Republican parties have structurally built themselves into the election system in a way that…

While it's true a third-party attempt is all but hopeless, Nader's campaign isn't the most successful in recent years. Gary Johnson did better in 2016 and Perot did much better in 1992 and 1996 although he wasn't running as a Libertarian or Green.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#589

Post by mypalmike » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

ctvo wrote: post #425

realce wrote: post #353

I raised over 400k for Andrew's POTUS run and devoted a year of my life to running his official Reddit (104k subs at peak), then joined a SuperPAC to further his positions after the run. The campaign team was full of fools who squandered almost every good turn received, most campaign workers were paid less than minimum wage, and Andrew eventually stole the pac's name and branding - Humanity Forward - put everyone out…

Good to get confirmation. I had a sense Yang was incompetent, and now I know. I still like some of his ideas, and I'm thankful he led to more Americans learning about UBI from the presidential race.

Now you know? You now know what one person on the internet said.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#590

Post by bobthepanda » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #571

bobthepanda wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is strategy. Going for broke by running a presidential candidate is a surefire way to lose , and no one really donates to parties that lose. Which is a problem, because presidential campaigns cost a crapton of money; Bernie 2016 cost $220M and that was the primary. If you look at successful third or fourth parties in FPTP nations, they are generally running lots of local campaigns, which are cheaper, give…

Most localities in the US are dominated by one of the major parties to the point where the primary becomes the election. That doesn't leave any room for a third party to break in either. Too many people never learn about local candidates and end up just pulling a straight ticket lever. This is the end result of decades of gerrymandering.

If you run a third party that is appealing enough, you can certainly have a go at it. I just have literally never seen, I don't know, the Green Party put up a candidate for local city elections.

It's not like party establishments haven't had candidates lose despite all odds. And Independents have had good streaks at lower offices (e.g. Bernie Sanders, Michael Bloomberg)