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Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

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Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#31

Post by Alex3917 »

true_religion wrote: post #15
Alex3917 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Let me tell you from personal experience, these people are doing more harm to their children than good." The problem is that the science clearly says the opposite: "At the end of 14 months, core ADHD symptoms were reduced more in the children treated with stimulants than with behavioral therapy. However, at the end of three years, 'medication use was a significant marker not of beneficial outcome, but of deteriorati…

I don't have time for a full rebuttal, and it may well be true that medication is a worse approach to ADHD treatment than behavioral therapy. However, I want to point out by example that science is not true that "science clearly says" this. --- 1. "At the end of 14 months, core ADHD symptoms were reduced more in the children treated with stimulants than with behavioral therapy. However, at the end of three years, 'me…

Thanks for your response. Here are a few issues I would raise though:

"It would be incorrect to conclude from these results that treatment makes no difference or is not worth pursuing"

They are defining treatment as either medication or therapy, not just medication.

"medication management-may only make a persistent long term difference if it is continued with the same intensity as during the MTA's initial 14 month period"

OK, but this is completely speculative. The researchers don't even give any reason to believe that this would be true, let alone point to any evidence.

"It could be that ADHD symptoms are positively correlated with psychosis."

The research states that all of the kids who developed psychosis were on ADHD meds, the group that was diagnosed with ADHD but was not medicated did not develop any psychosis at all.

"there is no indication that stimulant medication is wholly poor performing and that early studies indicating efficacy were flawed."

There were no early long-term studies indicating efficacy though, these are the only studies that were ever done.

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#32

Post by Rexatron »

roel_v wrote: post #20
Rexatron wrote: post #8

As a child of 8 years old, I was given 120MG of Ritalin per day. I rarely slept the first 2 years. If I did it was around 6am for an hour or so. Then I had to take my morning dose for school. They also wanted me to take a pill to sleep, which felt so horrible I cannot even explain it. I was a zombie in the morning if I took it, then onto the morning ritalin dose. I would just do pushups in my room until 3am some nigh…

What are you saying, that people should build corralled pens for children so that they can 'thrive' on their natural ability to bounce from left to right and generally moving about a lot but accomplishing nothing? Your appeal to emotion argument is detrimental to all those who are (through prejudices like yours) denied treatment for what is an actual, physiological brain defect. 120 mg is a lot, it may have been too…

Is that so? I don't recall saying those things.

I did say an open space for them to get the energy out, so that when they return they are more able to focus on 'accomplishing things'. Whatever it is kids need to accomplish other growing up.

Yes, I'm biased (not prejudiced). Due my experience, which I stated clearly.

Taking a set of traits that don't work in modern society and calling it a DISORDER is the only intellectual dishonesty here. Prescribing meds for a behavioral traits that people don't approve of is selfish, controlling, and a true detriment to those kids.

That ADHD (which I did not deny exists, I stated it did, and that I believed it's genetic basis) is treatable by Ritalin/Adderall I don't deny.

I just happen to know the long-term effects are detrimental. Studies happen to back me up.

Studies also show behavioral therapy is as good as medication. It's far better for kids as they get to learn about life without being on drugs. They learn real life skills rather than brute force concentration through drugs.

"I was not myself" is true. I was drugged with something that crams neuro-chemicals into my brain making me into something other than I wanted to be.

There is no true self (especially mystical). There was a natural me and a me on Ritalin (which was very different). I would have preferred to learn the life skills I needed and haven't learned until recently. I had the experience for a reason and often I believe it is to let people know about it and possibly protect other kids from what I experienced.

Sincerely, -Crabby McGee

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#33

Post by ristretto »

Rexatron wrote: post #8

As a child of 8 years old, I was given 120MG of Ritalin per day. I rarely slept the first 2 years. If I did it was around 6am for an hour or so. Then I had to take my morning dose for school. They also wanted me to take a pill to sleep, which felt so horrible I cannot even explain it. I was a zombie in the morning if I took it, then onto the morning ritalin dose. I would just do pushups in my room until 3am some nigh…

That's what came to my mind as well: We will be hearing these "X is linked to genetics" news a lot more often for everything ranging from boredom to our favorite color. Yes, almost everything is genetic to an extent, but not everything is a disorder, especially the brain-related ones (other than profound conditions like alzheimer's or parkinson). Can psychology define what is the "Ideal mental state"? I don't think so (and it's a little creepy).

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#34

Post by Rexatron »

kubrickslair wrote: post #29
Rexatron wrote: post #8

As a child of 8 years old, I was given 120MG of Ritalin per day. I rarely slept the first 2 years. If I did it was around 6am for an hour or so. Then I had to take my morning dose for school. They also wanted me to take a pill to sleep, which felt so horrible I cannot even explain it. I was a zombie in the morning if I took it, then onto the morning ritalin dose. I would just do pushups in my room until 3am some nigh…

Talking generally, most mental disorders when not extreme are genetic advantages in the right situations. Bipolar and creativity, asperger's and certain forms of engineering, even milder forms of ADHD with right people skills can be pretty useful for the some types of entrepreneurship. I am quite sure there are many more forms of mental illness that have not been documented. Heck, even I have had few very strange qui…

I agree. I was a quirky, energetic, and mischievous child. I caused trouble. I was a brat (and still am sometimes).

I'm glad to have my ADD, hyper-awareness comes in handy often. Sometimes it drives me crazy too. But I'm learning to be aware of where my mind takes me.

The journey has been tough, but I've learned a lot about myself.

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#35

Post by mcantor »

I'm 26, and I was diagnosed with ADD last year, at the suggestion of my dad, who was not diagnosed until his 40's. It took me almost a year to start actively researching ADD, because I grew up in an upper-middle-class community where it was primarily over-diagnosed in unmotivated kids whose parents were convinced that brain dysfunction was the only thing that could possibly keep their children from being A students. To say the very least, I was skeptical.

When I finally began learning about ADD, I was startled by how standard my story was. Reading Driven To Distraction was a watershed experience for me; at times I was convinced that they had simply copy-and-pasted my academic transcript: "Dreamer," "Has a creative mind that would produce incredible results if he applied himself once in a while," "Inconsistent. What happened to the A student sitting in my classroom last year?"

In perspective, so much suddenly made sense; not just my experiences in high school, but beyond that as well. I failed only one class in my entire academic career, a programming course in my second year of college. How ironic and confusing that my only failure would be in the subject for which I had the most passion. Now it made sense. Only two or three years ago from today, I almost lost my job because my output was so inconsistent. I barely scraped by and recovered, but the experience shook me. Now, I understood.

There are many forms of treatment, all of which I have experimented with. When it comes to medication, it took me a long time to settle on Adderall, which lets me focus like a normal person without any appreciable side-effects. The drug was a game-changer for me, like the first time I put on glasses.

I think I'm glad that I wasn't medicated as a kid, if only because of a deep uncertainty about medicating something as malleable as a child's brain. Conversely, going 25 years without diagnosis has also drastically affected every part of my life. (I have no idea how my dad dealt with it for almost 50 years.) This was also something that I grew to understand as I learned more about ADD; undiagnosed, it can lead to perennial struggles with depression, self-esteem, poor impulse control and a host of others. I think the most important thing about ADD isn't necessarily medication or even "treatment" but simply awareness.

"Laziness" is a symptom, not a root cause. If we can be mindful about the signs of ADD in childhood, we have already taken a huge step towards improving the quality of life for people with the disorder, and everyone they interact with. I'm sure there will be debates about how to treat it for many years to come, but simple awareness can only help.

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#36

Post by onemoreact »

Rexatron wrote: post #32
roel_v wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you saying, that people should build corralled pens for children so that they can 'thrive' on their natural ability to bounce from left to right and generally moving about a lot but accomplishing nothing? Your appeal to emotion argument is detrimental to all those who are (through prejudices like yours) denied treatment for what is an actual, physiological brain defect. 120 mg is a lot, it may have been too…

Is that so? I don't recall saying those things. I did say an open space for them to get the energy out, so that when they return they are more able to focus on 'accomplishing things'. Whatever it is kids need to accomplish other growing up. Yes, I'm biased (not prejudiced). Due my experience, which I stated clearly. Taking a set of traits that don't work in modern society and calling it a DISORDER is the only intelle…

The human brain is arguably the most complex system on the planet. We have a very poor understanding of how it functions so we fall back to the old, "is this useful metric" and DISORDER only refers to things that are less than optimal.

There are plenty of environments where a mild level of ADHD is not an issue; unfortunately children are expected to be able to sit and concentrate for several hours a day. In that context the term DISORDER is appropriate which is not to say it can be compensated for just that there is an issue. There are plenty of ways to compensate for poor vision and people are starting to think of mental issues in those terms. Unfortunately it's harder to change the environment or give extra attention than a cheap external prosthetic. Thus, drugs are often the first choice, even if they have minimal value or just trade harming the user to help those around them.

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#37

Post by RandalMolek »

I think this article understates one point. ADHD is already known to be highly heritable, which already tells you genes are involved.

http://i.imgur.com/G7jDX.png

Also, the first association between ADHD and polymorphisms affecting the dopamine transporter was found in 1995.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1801209/

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#38

Post by Rexatron »

true_religion wrote: post #25
Rexatron wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your experience is yours. How long have you been on medication? What medication specifically? I've heard that some new meds are not stimulant. They might be good. But the old Ritalin/Adderall stimulants have quite possibly caused the psychotic symptoms you are talking about. That's what they do. Are you familiar with street meth? Ritlain/Adderall are pharma grade long duration forms of that. They have made me crazy b…

If you're willing to throw out a "pharma grade street drug" then wouldn't you be willing to throw out any pharma-grade drugs that are used directly on the street such as codeine, morphine, Valium, Vicodin, and any other broad spectrum pain reliever.

Not pain meds for legit pain.

But as a ex-addict of benzos I would restrict those to epileptic patients...

The data on benzos for mania, depression, and suicide is scary. Long term use has terrible effects.

Most docs don't prescribe the heavy ones for psychiatry anymore. Seizures are a different story.

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#39

Post by ScottWhigham »

Rexatron wrote: post #8

As a child of 8 years old, I was given 120MG of Ritalin per day. I rarely slept the first 2 years. If I did it was around 6am for an hour or so. Then I had to take my morning dose for school. They also wanted me to take a pill to sleep, which felt so horrible I cannot even explain it. I was a zombie in the morning if I took it, then onto the morning ritalin dose. I would just do pushups in my room until 3am some nigh…

"Just be good parents and give your child an environment where his or her differences can thrive. Find some open space and let them loose for several hours a day. Homeschool them with creative and intriguing lessons tailored just to them. Do whatever you can to allow their abilities become advantages rather than brand it a disorder and ruin their self-esteem by sending them to the nurse twice a day to be force-fed a pill they don’t need."

Let me guess: you aren't a parent, are you? I grew up on Ritalin and my son is wayyyyyy more ADHD than I am. He was prescribed adult doses of ADHD meds at five. We homeschooled after he was sent to the principal's office in kindergarten something like 10 times in a three week span (and that was while he was medicated).

I know both sides of this story and, to be frank, I'll avoid taking advice on parenting from someone who has no experience in that situation. I'm not trying to be rude but it's just like a deep developer who has only worked on solo iPhone app projects giving a talk to 1000s of people on how to effectively manage a team of 100 developers on 3-year long projects.

Re: Evidence That ADHD Is a Genetic Disorder

#40

Post by juiceandjuice »

I'm one of those people who wishes they were diagnosed as a kid.

I've been diagnosed by two different psychiatrists with ADHD. I've been on Adderall (XR) at dosages up to 80mg, Strattera, Wellbutrin XL + 10mg Adderall (actually my favorite, but not so effective), and now I'm on Concerta (Ritalin) 27mg/54mg.

The 27mg dose of Concerta is minimally effective without affecting my sleep, so sometimes I need to boost it. I hate stimulants though, and I wish I could get along fine without them but it's just not possible. Strattera worked good but the "sexual side effects" were too weird for me to continue on. Wellbutrin + Adderall worked okay (with the benefit of me generally being a bit happier) but my psychiatrist after moving didn't want me on two medicines that can raise your blood pressure.

I ended up going to 6 different schools between 8th grade and graduating across 4 different cities. Despite that, I graduated high school with a 3.5 and started college as a Sophomore. My first semester in college I got a 1.8 and thrown in academic suspension. The next three years would be really rough. After that, I went to my family doctor and got adderall, and that helped out a lot at first, but it wasn't a miracle drug and I still had to really force myself to concentrate in weird ways to get through school, and that's really where the adderall helped. Towards the end, school got easier and I enjoyed it more, but I could also sit down and do homework.

I've gone off meds completely for a few months at a time almost once a year, and I just can't do it. I wish I would have been diagnosed with it as a kid and had the behavioral therapy along with it instead of having to wing it for the past 6 years, but that's in the past. I also wish there was a non-stimulant that worked really well without side effects too, but for now, I'm happy with the Concerta.

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