It's been said before, but it's worth repeating. Conferences are a high risk business operation. For every SXSW, there's a thousand "Learn to Buy Real Estate with No Money Down" conferences at the Ramada Inn next to the airport. Paypal is not in the business of assuming your risk. They are in the business of processing payments while mitigating their own.
How PayPal could have killed an independent conference
11–20 of 66 posts
Re: How PayPal could have killed an independent conference
#12Paypal classes events as high-risk transactions (as they require people to pay upfront often far in advance of the event) so you're at much more risk of being suspended if you breach their risk thresholds. Imagine if you're a fraudster, you've knocked up a fake event and you've sold $10k-$20k in tickets, you could withdraw the money and disappear before the date of the event. Now Paypal are on the hook for the money,…
The short is that PayPal just doesn't care about small users. If they did, these problems would be solved.
Re: How PayPal could have killed an independent conference
#13> "I knew PayPal couldn't be trusted, but I used them anyway, and they shafted me, just like I thought they would!" He only froze my money because he loves me, he won't do it again, I promise!
Re: How PayPal could have killed an independent conference
#14Paypal classes events as high-risk transactions (as they require people to pay upfront often far in advance of the event) so you're at much more risk of being suspended if you breach their risk thresholds. Imagine if you're a fraudster, you've knocked up a fake event and you've sold $10k-$20k in tickets, you could withdraw the money and disappear before the date of the event. Now Paypal are on the hook for the money,…
Then PayPal should provide a way to pre-mitigate the risk. For instance, they could require a bond before ticket sales start. Rather than screwing legitimate users, there are other ways to solve this problem. The short is that PayPal just doesn't care about small users. If they did, these problems would be solved.
What Paypal is however is a mass-market product aimed at low-risk transactions. They don't care about dealing with special case high-risk transactions, that's a fundamentally different business model which they don't want to go after.
It's perfectly reasonable for Paypal to decide their own business model.
Re: How PayPal could have killed an independent conference
#15To add to this, think about charge backs. Paypal doesn't even make an effort to fight for you, in the case of a Charge Back. I had a charge back NINE months after a transaction for 2 $500 amounts. Ouch. The worst part is... if you want to dispute the charge back, they charge you ANOTHER fee to do it.
Paypal has been an absolute nightmare - and if there was an alternative, I'd jump on it right away.
Re: How PayPal could have killed an independent conference
#16Re: How PayPal could have killed an independent conference
#17Re: How PayPal could have killed an independent conference
#18It's been said before, but it's worth repeating. Conferences are a high risk business operation. For every SXSW, there's a thousand "Learn to Buy Real Estate with No Money Down" conferences at the Ramada Inn next to the airport. Paypal is not in the business of assuming your risk. They are in the business of processing payments while mitigating their own.
Whatever happened to "caveat emptor"? If you're attending a real estate conference at a Ramada Inn, you weren't defrauded - you're just an idiot.
What happened is that "you were an idiot" is not accepted by many any more.
Many people don't expect to pay for their mistakes, even if that means someone else paying instead, and the worst people for this are the sort of people who make a lot of mistakes.
They'll argue, they'll fight, they'll try force a chargeback on the credit card payment, they'll do anything they can to avoid taking the cost of a mistake - if nothing else works they just keep on and on and on and on and on at everyone involved until someone gives them a full refund just to make them shut up and go away (as the admin time arguing back can become more expensive than the refund and taking them to court for harassment is hardly a convenient option). Some will even sometimes try taking you and/or the payment processor to court. Yes the case will probably be laughed out, but someone has to go through all the hassle until it gets laughed out, then (unless you are in a "loser pays" country) counter-sue to get your legal costs back.
And then there is the negative PR they can try to drum up - if they are successful here that can be much more costly than a refund.
Caveat emptor doesn't work if the emptor is a very loud, very persistent, fuckwit with entitlement issues (or just a scammer). Which unfortunately is a large enough segment of the general population to be a significant problem.
Re: How PayPal could have killed an independent conference
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then PayPal should provide a way to pre-mitigate the risk. For instance, they could require a bond before ticket sales start. Rather than screwing legitimate users, there are other ways to solve this problem. The short is that PayPal just doesn't care about small users. If they did, these problems would be solved.
Paypal is primarily about small users, they're a long tail business. Any large business would just get a merchant account. What Paypal is however is a mass-market product aimed at low-risk transactions. They don't care about dealing with special case high-risk transactions, that's a fundamentally different business model which they don't want to go after. It's perfectly reasonable for Paypal to decide their own busin…
Re: How PayPal could have killed an independent conference
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Paypal is primarily about small users, they're a long tail business. Any large business would just get a merchant account. What Paypal is however is a mass-market product aimed at low-risk transactions. They don't care about dealing with special case high-risk transactions, that's a fundamentally different business model which they don't want to go after. It's perfectly reasonable for Paypal to decide their own busin…
That they let you accrue thousands or even millions in charges and then lock your account unexpectedly with poor customer service is the rub. There's no warning, just a surprise logistical nightmare that they benefit enormously from.