Live data from Hacker News

The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

media.ccc.de

201–210 of 219 posts

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If there are puppet masters in the world, they surely are happy when we fight amongst ourselves. History has shown this to be true. I think the biggest problem is that a generation of both left and right wingers have not been taught proper civics and history of how this country has and continues to operate. Some of the left is rediscovering this history now and is fighting the right who either already know the histo…

I don't have a lot of time to think about this right now, but generally I do agree that the right is learning how to ridicule and using it more. I'm curious about your association of slavery with conservatism. It's doubly strange since the Republican party is the one that fought the Civil war and supported desegration while many Democrats fought against it. The Democrat party had a former KKK member not that long ago…

The republican party of today is not the same as the Republican party of Lincoln. Completely different ideology. Do you know the history of the parties? I refuse to believe that any actual informed American does not know this important history. This is a disingenuous argument and you should know better.

>I've heard and read the arguments for the party switch and I find them to be a bit tortured personally. But, civilized people can disagree about all of this, and I don't want to drag us into a partisan battle either.

What does this even mean? The history is pretty cut and dry and explains their current day actions. The ideology of the party was completely different in the Lincoln era.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has happened in western countries but most dramatically in North America is that "left" vs "right" has been transformed from a strong disagreement about management of the economy to a strong disagreement about how to manage the culture . This is because in the US especially the "left" in the traditional socialist sense -- and its allies in the union movement and among students and academia -- have lost the class…

Content of expressions shifts over time, especially in politics. Contemporary Pope would probably be horrified if someone suggested to him to initiate a crusade against the unbelievers. The combination of Christianity and politics has shifted over time, there is much less hard force and much more sentimentality involved. But that does not mean that Crusaders weren't true Christians while Francis I. is, or vice versa.…

Nah, I think it's deeper than that. If the Catholic Church stopped believing in God and Jesus completely, would you still call them Christians/Catholics? At what point do we just throw our hands up in the air on a term?

Likewise with socialist/social democratic parties -- if they abandon all the tenets of socialism: worker control of capital, anti-capitalism, etc. but still keep the name... is it just that the content of the expression has changed? That seems a stretch.

However, I guess there's an argument to be made that "left wing" is so non-specific that it could do what you're saying. The phrase itself has its origins in the French Revolution with the Jacobins, etc. who were certainly not socialist. So I guess there's that.

But here's the thing. Many of the politicians called "left" in the United States don't even call themselves that. The right wing in the US calls almost everything "left wing". I stare in amazement at people who call Clinton or Biden "left wing"; they don't describe themselves that way, and actual socialists and left wingers don't support them (except grudgingly with their noises plugged when they have to vote).

But to the Tea Party and Trump types, they are "left wing." By which they just mean something pejorative

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a lot of time to think about this right now, but generally I do agree that the right is learning how to ridicule and using it more. I'm curious about your association of slavery with conservatism. It's doubly strange since the Republican party is the one that fought the Civil war and supported desegration while many Democrats fought against it. The Democrat party had a former KKK member not that long ago…

The republican party of today is not the same as the Republican party of Lincoln. Completely different ideology. Do you know the history of the parties? I refuse to believe that any actual informed American does not know this important history. This is a disingenuous argument and you should know better. >I've heard and read the arguments for the party switch and I find them to be a bit tortured personally. But, civil…

I could stand to be more educated, so please give me something to educate me instead of calling me disingenuous.

I am willing to listen to arguments that explain how it is that the Democratic party has been able to shed it's incredibly racist history and instead push all of the accusations of racism onto Republicans. I've read these arguments a few times over the years, and I found them to be very tortured and to raise lots of questions.

Even though, you didn't offer any information to further your arguments, I will try to add one to further mine.

If the parties did switch somehow, how do you explain that Social Security act was passed in 1935 by a Democratic President, a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House.

Should I attribute the Social Security Act to conservatives?

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The republican party of today is not the same as the Republican party of Lincoln. Completely different ideology. Do you know the history of the parties? I refuse to believe that any actual informed American does not know this important history. This is a disingenuous argument and you should know better. >I've heard and read the arguments for the party switch and I find them to be a bit tortured personally. But, civil…

I could stand to be more educated, so please give me something to educate me instead of calling me disingenuous. I am willing to listen to arguments that explain how it is that the Democratic party has been able to shed it's incredibly racist history and instead push all of the accusations of racism onto Republicans. I've read these arguments a few times over the years, and I found them to be very tortured and to rai…

Before I go into this, Are you an American? If so, which state did you grow up in?

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#205
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they? As far as i remember, the chinese empire was toppled by a small fast changing merchant nation on a island half way around the world. Beginning a hundred years were it was trampled by repeatedly including by another island nation nearby. The roman empire died the strangest death of all, it created such a tremendous underclass stagnant in misery (slaves, woman, all non-citizens) that a religion could basicall…

Surely both ended - after existing longer than any empire I know of. China is on its way to become a superpower again. One could argue that the last 150 years are merely a temporary dip.

China is spiraling back down the well. They are currently closing off, like north korea. Theire age pyramid is coming down hard on them. They have not yet a fully working info-economy, so they are running out of cheap manual labour.

So many before them, were to take the throne for all eternity, the japanese, the koreans and then they all became just another part of a connected world and on the throne remained, he who could in-cooperate change the fastest and most efficient.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#206

While I don't think this is a positive trend by any means, I try to take a broader historical view of this. It is only after the second industrial revolution and the invention of affordable long-range transportation technologies like automobiles and trains, that non-conformity and privacy and true individualism were ever a realistic expectation of anyone, and even then you're talking a tiny global elite. Meanwhile, f…

I don't think individualism became the norm until the early 1980s to be honest. Outside of niche sub-groups and the youth you see massive conformity when looking at footage from before then.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could stand to be more educated, so please give me something to educate me instead of calling me disingenuous. I am willing to listen to arguments that explain how it is that the Democratic party has been able to shed it's incredibly racist history and instead push all of the accusations of racism onto Republicans. I've read these arguments a few times over the years, and I found them to be very tortured and to rai…

Before I go into this, Are you an American? If so, which state did you grow up in?

I'm an American who grew up in the midwest.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Except it was only ever "just a joke" for the perpetrators. What we're seeing more of now is the voice of the previously unheard and ignored, and it turns out they don't like being the butt of racist or sexist or bigoted "jokes". This is the same energy as dismissing sexual harassment as "boys will be boys…

Thank you for proving the parent comments point. He said "People used to make tasteless jokes all the time" and you equated it to "why can't we physically assault girls anymore". There are shades of gray to all huuman interaction, and thanks to behaviour like yours where people jump to prove they are good, anything can be considered "bad".

Why should people in position of power get to choose what others should and shouldn't be offended by? Both with physical and verbal abuse, minorities and women have been told by people in positions of power to toughen up. All we're seeing now is the repercussions of those marginalized folks getting their voice. I'm sorry you don't like it when they complain about being abused, but telling them to just toughen up is absolutely the losing position to take here.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before I go into this, Are you an American? If so, which state did you grow up in?

I'm an American who grew up in the midwest.

>I am willing to listen to arguments that explain how it is that the Democratic party has been able to shed it's incredibly racist history and instead push all of the accusations of racism onto Republicans. I've read these arguments a few times over the years, and I found them to be very tortured and to raise lots of questions.

So the following two videos provide a very brief cursory glance at the transition the two parties went through and how they got to the circumstanced that led to that transition. I recommend watching both because they are each covering one side of the story.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6R0NvVr164

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8VOM8ET1WU

>If the parties did switch somehow, how do you explain that Social Security act was passed in 1935 by a Democratic President, a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House.

Unfortunately one thing that the videos do not cover more is the underlying trust in government programs that were well received by the Southern Democratic base. You had techniques like redlining that began around 1934 that would block Black Americans from government programs that were designed to build up a new middle class. These programs were embraced by the majority white portion because in essence it was a generational transfer of wealth. Most families wealth is in their homes and by making it as easy as possible to obtain a home and build equity, White America was set on a path of generational wealth while the Black people at the time were systematically barred and those trickle down to this very day. The videos discuss in minor detail the idea of government starting to become more neutral in regards to things like mandating prayer in school. This began a growing mistrust in government. As the push led to Engel v. Vitale in 62, it along with other related social issues caused a massive change in mentality for social programs. Why? Because they started to view government meddling in social issues as a way for blacks to raise their status.

All of this exploded into a massive end for the relationship between southerners and the democratic party after the Civil Rights act. The idea of a good old boy southerner betraying his own people appears to have been the last straw. (Note: I am not certain if it was the final straw or if the movement was already underway but not openly.)

The video touches upon Reagan. He did what the southern racists wanted. He reduced the size of the government while also working to keep minorities behind. One example is that he introduced the idea of "welfare queens" which turned out to be a continuation of the racist policies to further hold back Black people.

At the same time the Democratic party was being decimated in election after election. Unions were being watered down and workers rights were slipping away. Democrats losing finally ended when they joined forces with the corporate overlords running the Republican party and finally they got someone in the White House (Bill Clinton). And what did he do? Be socially liberal while continuing the Republican destruction of the middle class. As a midwesterner you must know all about the consequences of NAFTA. Going back to my original comment, it does not cost the Democrats anything to be socially liberal. But when it comes to harming their corporate donors, they will be in line with the Republicans.

So hopefully that gives some simple answer to your questions. However a lot of this history requires a deep dive. Its a shame that this history has not been taught in schools or been whitewashed. Recently we had the stupid fight over "Critical Race Theory". Its just another attempt to downplay these systemic racist issues that have been in place for decades. AOC and the squad have utterly failed at pulling the Democratic party Left in a meaningful way. In hindsight, it was a fools errand. The Democratic party is fundamentally a corporatist party and until that goes away the real Left (that the rest of the civilized world would consider left) does not exist in the US, they have been completely destroyed for at least a generation now. One thing AOC gets massive credit for is creating a discussion where people are finally going back into the history books and looking at what really happened. She has started so many discussions discussion systems of oppression that have probably caused many people to finally get curious and do their own research.

Here is a curveball: What do you think about this video(it might wrinkle your brain a bit): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns-BgOf6DRg

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Publicly espousing an unpopular opinion now can be career suicide Let's not pretend this is new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist The difference now is that visibility is more uniformly distributed across the population.

YC has a blacklist of people and companies. Not sure what will land you there, but I know they have it and use it.

I have no idea what you're referring to, and if you're going to make such insinuations you should be specific and concrete. Otherwise it's impossible to answer, and that makes it a smear.
Post reply on HN