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Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

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Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#531

Post by native_samples »

notahacker wrote: post #233
timthorn wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it can do. Without the real threat of UKIP taking votes from the Conservative Party in the UK, David Cameron would not have promised the in/out referendum on EU membership.

This is a fair counter example, but one also has to consider that (i) much of the referendum demand came from within his own party for ideological rather than practical reasons and (ii) he was able to implement it because the UK's electoral system and multiparty politics gave his party a clear majority with a minority of the vote . Or put more simply: his personal standing within the party was threatened more than hi…

The votes were not irrelevant. Most people think that offering the referendum to UKIP voters is the only reason the Conservatives weren't forced into another coalition government.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#532

Post by mc32 »

winternett wrote: post #497
realce wrote: post #353

I raised over 400k for Andrew's POTUS run and devoted a year of my life to running his official Reddit (104k subs at peak), then joined a SuperPAC to further his positions after the run. The campaign team was full of fools who squandered almost every good turn received, most campaign workers were paid less than minimum wage, and Andrew eventually stole the pac's name and branding - Humanity Forward - put everyone out…

Elections now are generally 2 people with influence, connections, and wealth (or someone that can be exploited as a puppet) that are chosen by financial backers to win, and a remaining pool of stooges and fake implants meant to take votes away from either of the 2 people mentioned prior. Everything else, including the idea that an honest candidate can "climb out of nowhere" and win hearts and votes, is a pipe dream b…

I think Ross Perot with his own money obviously was able to climb out of nowhere to get 18% in the general.

The two party duopoly ganged up on him and the Reform Party (as he was opposed to their globalization) and quashed any opportunity for him to succeed.

These parties don’t shoot themselves in the foot, they adapt to and coöpt any threat.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#533

Post by sakopov »

hef19898 wrote: post #176
jagrsw wrote: post #159

".. because our founding fathers .." It's interesting to see that all sides of political dispute in US, even parties (like this one) which want to cater to the seemingly more rational and less emotional part of the populace use the argument of "the founding fathers wanted it this way, so... that must be the correct way of doing things forever".

That American obsession with the founding fathers always puzzles me as a non-American. France is in tis 5th Republic, the second since WW2. Germany went through a lot of Government changes since the 18th century as well, as did a lot of other countries in Europe. With the exception of some wierdos nobody puts those long gone governments on a pedestal.

As someone who grew up under communism and has one remaining grandparent who fought fascism all the way to Berlin, I am puzzled how any seemingly complacent westerner can call the topic of "founding fathers" an obsession. I guess it's an obsession with the foundations of freedom? I wasn't born American, but I have embraced the fact that my life no longer feels like prison in the US and I truly think that calling America's relationship with the work of founding fathers an "obsession" is truly idiotic, especially considering a trend suggesting more and more countries are playing with authoritarian regimes. [1]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28399317

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#534

Post by bena »

realce wrote: post #353

I raised over 400k for Andrew's POTUS run and devoted a year of my life to running his official Reddit (104k subs at peak), then joined a SuperPAC to further his positions after the run. The campaign team was full of fools who squandered almost every good turn received, most campaign workers were paid less than minimum wage, and Andrew eventually stole the pac's name and branding - Humanity Forward - put everyone out…

I am not that surprised.

He kept going on and on about taxing "tech" to fund UBI. And it would work out and it would be like Alaska with their oil fund thing.

But, when you get down to it, what is "tech"? How is it different from just anything? We use the word "tech" to essentially describe any business that is based primarily on software. Where software is a major focus.

Because, like chemicals, technology is literally everything. The wheel is technology. A car is technology. "Tech" isn't an industry, it's a catch-all term for businesses we don't want to define.

So how do you define Google as "tech" in a way that doesn't include other advertising companies or other companies that run their business with software (which is pretty much all of them now)?

So with that and everything else I've learned about him, he really seemed like someone who was very articulate, but ultimately empty.

His big thing was "MATH" but what he really needed was "ENGLISH".

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#535

Post by realce »

Alex3917 wrote: post #430
realce wrote: post #353

I raised over 400k for Andrew's POTUS run and devoted a year of my life to running his official Reddit (104k subs at peak), then joined a SuperPAC to further his positions after the run. The campaign team was full of fools who squandered almost every good turn received, most campaign workers were paid less than minimum wage, and Andrew eventually stole the pac's name and branding - Humanity Forward - put everyone out…

> The campaign team was full of fools who squandered almost every good turn received He also fired them one day before dropping out of the race just to send a message. I don't know that that's great leadership, but to me that shows he had some idea of what was going on at least. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/06/yang-fires-dozens-o... That's definitely not to undermine the rest of OP's message, just adding a l…

Those workers were trying to unionize and the campaign fired organizers for the union before the primary :)

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#536

Post by Alex3917 »

realce wrote: post #535
Alex3917 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The campaign team was full of fools who squandered almost every good turn received He also fired them one day before dropping out of the race just to send a message. I don't know that that's great leadership, but to me that shows he had some idea of what was going on at least. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/06/yang-fires-dozens-o... That's definitely not to undermine the rest of OP's message, just adding a l…

Those workers were trying to unionize and the campaign fired organizers for the union before the primary :)

fwiw I was talking about the campaign HQ folks, not the Iowa folks (who were unionizing).

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#537

Post by brightball »

native_samples wrote: post #521
brightball wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just looking through his points on the website, here's what's actively supported by the LP... - UBI - Ranked Choice Voting and Open Primaries - Term Limits ----- These are widely supported within the LP - Working with government should be painless ----- For LP this means because there should be less federal power, leading to less of a feeling that it's trying to control your life - Legislating based on outcomes, not…

No wonder Yang got nowhere. This list isn't really a list of policies at all, it's a set of vague truisms that hardly anyone would disagree with but which can't be obviously turned into any sort of implementation. And what sort of libertarian party supports UBI?! How would that ever be implemented without massive levels of top-down coercion and taxation? No analysis I've ever seen says it can be self-funding as was o…

UBI as a means of eliminating and consolidating most other government welfare programs under a single umbrella. It would eliminate a ton of federal agencies and bloat in the process.

Additionally, having it conditionally tied to overall government spending so that excess spending cuts into UBI would ensure that every American at any level has a reason to combat new government spending and inflation.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#538

Post by disneygibson »

hef19898 wrote: post #486
mythrwy wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You work with what you have. In the time you exist.

In the case some founding fathers, quite literally. Or rather who you own works for you as long as they exist.

If the anti-slavery states hadn’t compromised with the slave ones, the Revolution would have failed. Slavery would have likely existed longer because the British would end up being allied to the slave states (likely still colonies.)

Nothing is more nauseating that modern people looking upon the past with moral superiority.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#539

Post by rsynnott »

mywittyname wrote: post #512
rsynnott wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CDU/CSU aren't particularly socially progressive. That said, "grudgingly as socially progressive as the public demands we be, economically center-right" is pretty common in European politics; CDU/CSU are an example, as are FF and FG in Ireland.

That seems fine/palatable to me. And honestly, that's good leadership. Social policies should follow popular opinion and be flexible enough to shift ever few years. But economic policies may require unpopular actions to be taken. The population may not want higher interest rates, or a trade deal that kills a local factory. But those things might be for the greater good of everyone.

My issue with this approach is that it tends to put off progress until there is _overwhelming_ public support. For instance, the 38th Amendment to the Irish Constitution, which liberalised divorce rules, received _82%_ of the public vote. That's particularly extreme, but the 34th and 36th amendment (equal marriage and abortion) received 62% and 67% respectively. All of these could have been introduced years earlier and passed with clear public support.

If you wait until you have no choice but to do something, you tend to delay doing things a very long time. And it bleeds over into timidity about making tough decisions; for instance the FF/FG coalition in Ireland has been unable to do anything about housing, because any actual action is going to annoy _somebody_.

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