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European Parliament Calls for a Ban on Facial Recognition

politico.eu

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Re: European Parliament Calls for a Ban on Facial Recognition

#11

Post by arlort »

bluecalm wrote: post #4

I have mixed feelings over this. As a recent victim of crime (burglary and robbery) I know there is nothing the police can do about it even though the robber was caught on tape. There is a lot of crime that goes unpunished that contributes heavily to morale of the honest part of the population and their belief in the system. Why work when some thugs can take your staff for free and won't even be bothered by police ov…

I haven't been able to read the whole resolution, which has not legal value as is anyway, but my impression is that police using software on existing video to extract an image or even compare with an existing database would be fine

Having a CCTV pointed at a random square identifying everyone in it and tracking their movements for indefinite amounts of time, less fine

Re: European Parliament Calls for a Ban on Facial Recognition

#14

Post by hef19898 »

smarx007 wrote: post #13

No, EU parliament is not calling for a ban on facial rec. They are proposing to: forbid using it indiscriminately in public places and to forbid the use of any AI/ML in predictive policing.

Which is already more than a first step. Using facial recognition as part of a legitimate investigation is an acceptable thing to do.

Re: European Parliament Calls for a Ban on Facial Recognition

#15

Post by rightbyte »

sentinel wrote: post #7

How did the EU become such a bunch of luddites? Or does it only seem that way from outside? I get that there are legit concerns about face recognition (as there are benefits), but the concerns _could_ be regulated. Granted, regulation is a much more work intensive process – you have to sit down with a large number of people, get educated on the subject etc. Is it laziness? Or is this a negotiation tactic? Start askin…

It is just a matter of time before stores and what not will track you via CCTV and spam you ads and adjust your credit rating depending on some opaque metrics. I rather have a ban on it before it happens.

Re: European Parliament Calls for a Ban on Facial Recognition

#16

Post by gpderetta »

arlort wrote: post #11
bluecalm wrote: post #4

I have mixed feelings over this. As a recent victim of crime (burglary and robbery) I know there is nothing the police can do about it even though the robber was caught on tape. There is a lot of crime that goes unpunished that contributes heavily to morale of the honest part of the population and their belief in the system. Why work when some thugs can take your staff for free and won't even be bothered by police ov…

I haven't been able to read the whole resolution, which has not legal value as is anyway, but my impression is that police using software on existing video to extract an image or even compare with an existing database would be fine Having a CCTV pointed at a random square identifying everyone in it and tracking their movements for indefinite amounts of time, less fine

> my impression is that police using software on existing video to extract an image or even compare with an existing database would be fine

Like DNA and fingerprint evidence, I'm sure that an indiscriminate database search will absolutely have no false positives and no innocent people will ever get in trouble.

Re: European Parliament Calls for a Ban on Facial Recognition

#17

Post by CountDrewku »

bluecalm wrote: post #4

I have mixed feelings over this. As a recent victim of crime (burglary and robbery) I know there is nothing the police can do about it even though the robber was caught on tape. There is a lot of crime that goes unpunished that contributes heavily to morale of the honest part of the population and their belief in the system. Why work when some thugs can take your staff for free and won't even be bothered by police ov…

I agree with your stance. However, I don't think the fix is every going to come from police, government officials, or mass surveillance. Even if their intentions are altruistic they just can't be every where at once to help people and their hands are tied when it comes to enforcement.

I think laws that prioritize the right to self defense or defense of one's property are what's best. Castle doctrine laws, stand your ground etc. Yeah they're going to result in a minute amount of cases where crazy people go off on some innocent person but I think that's a better alternative than giving criminals more rights than law abiding citizens.

Re: European Parliament Calls for a Ban on Facial Recognition

#18

Post by sentinel »

noodlesUK wrote: post #9
bluecalm wrote: post #4

I have mixed feelings over this. As a recent victim of crime (burglary and robbery) I know there is nothing the police can do about it even though the robber was caught on tape. There is a lot of crime that goes unpunished that contributes heavily to morale of the honest part of the population and their belief in the system. Why work when some thugs can take your staff for free and won't even be bothered by police ov…

> I find the attitude of ignoring "petty crime" very worrying. I think the cost of it is underestimated. If we can use technology to catch the bad guys let's try it. For the sake of argument, we’ve caught the bad guy. What should we do now? I think this is a seriously hard to answer question, and we haven’t really got a coherent answer. This assumes that we actually get the right person as well, and facial recognitio…

An argument here is that it disincentivizes others from doing similar crimes. If the technology is so spot on that 99% of the time you commit the crime you'll get caught, then others will likely not take the risk.

Granted there's an easy counter argument there (all the more prescient these days) that they could wear a mask while committing the crime.

There's a similar (less discussed about) trend happening these days. Law enforcement is using DNA evidence from crime scenes, passing it through (sometimes private) DNA databases and getting matches.

Let's say those database continue to have more data – what are the odds that someone involved in a crime will leave some DNA behind, and will either themselves have their DNA in a database, or, a relative. The chances of you getting away with a crime converge to zero. And if you know you have high odds of getting caught when doing the crime, you might be less likely to do it in the first place.

Re: European Parliament Calls for a Ban on Facial Recognition

#19

Post by literallyaduck »

"Okay, we will send all our video surveillance to a third party intelligence partner with whom we own stock and they will do facial recognition and send us a list of suspects." - Most police and government entities.

If the ban doesn't prevent 3rd party data access the above will likely happen.

Re: European Parliament Calls for a Ban on Facial Recognition

#20

Post by sentinel »

rightbyte wrote: post #15
sentinel wrote: post #7

How did the EU become such a bunch of luddites? Or does it only seem that way from outside? I get that there are legit concerns about face recognition (as there are benefits), but the concerns _could_ be regulated. Granted, regulation is a much more work intensive process – you have to sit down with a large number of people, get educated on the subject etc. Is it laziness? Or is this a negotiation tactic? Start askin…

It is just a matter of time before stores and what not will track you via CCTV and spam you ads and adjust your credit rating depending on some opaque metrics. I rather have a ban on it before it happens.

This is already happening without facial recognition.
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