Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee

#31

Post by CryptoPunk » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 10:31 AM UTC

inter_netuser wrote: post #22

worrycue wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, Facebook doesn’t need to censor. They just need to rein in their algorithm that promote posts to people’s feeds. Watching the shorten 60 minute’s interview, I get the sense that’s the main problem. The algorithm promote stuff that maximizes “engagement” but the unfortunate side effect is that it sow division, reduces social trust, and creates civil unrest - among other side effects. Facebook’s own internal r…

You ever wondered why this specific whistleblower is testifying in front of Congress, while James Damore is unable to openly say where he works and Assange is still in jail despite the fact that the original witness againt him recanted and admitted to false statements, a crime in itself? Not to mention Snowden. Strange.

This "whistleblower" is now being represented by the extremely partisan PR firm, Bryson Gillette, that current White House press secretary Jen Psaki used to work for:

https://www.brysongillette.com/leadership/

Re: Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee

#32

Post by quotemstr » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 11:30 AM UTC

angelzen wrote: post #4

gremloni wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classifying reigning in massive disinformation campaigns and divisive propaganda as censorship is disingenuous at best.

The idea of viral news, where the masses somehow take the place of editorial control, is bananas. The average Jane simply has no mental energy to do it properly. No amount of algorithms and bureaucracy can paper over this fundamental reality. We need 5000 professional news outlets competing for the public's trust, not Facebook with a bureaucratic brain eating parasite.

You don't actually believe in democracy if you think that regular people shouldn't get to talk to each other to make political decisions and that some central committee gets to decide which ideas become popular.

Re: Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee

#33

Post by sysihyk » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

Frances Haugen, the former Facebook employee who testified before the Senate commerce committee today, has a history of left-wing activism and is working with the same lawyer who represented the alleged Ukraine whistleblower who sparked the second bogus Trump impeachment.

Haugen testified before the Senate Commerce Committee today after getting the celebrity treatment from the establishment media, including a full-length interview on 60 Minutes.

Haugen, unlike other Facebook whistleblowers who have been ignored by the media, has called for more censorship of the platform, not less — and, according to her remarks at the hearing today, wants the government to step in to make it happen.

Not only that, but she believes that she, and people like her, should be in charge of regulating Facebook.

“There needs to be a regulatory home where someone like me could do a tour of duty after working at a place like [Facebook], and have a place to work on things like regulation,” said Haugen.

Re: Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee

#34

Post by paul7986 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

HeyZuess wrote: post #30

paul7986 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculous to think a platform that most of humanity uses can be controlled to the liking of the left, the right, the upside down and etc ... cause all those groups make up humanity and we all do not nor will ever think exactly the same and we all have different motives and biases. Facebook is doing the thing that makes the most sense ... letting humanity be itself and profiting from it! Also, disinformation / m…

> Facebook is doing the thing that makes the most sense ... letting humanity be itself and profiting from it! It's my understanding that is not what is happening in regards to "humanity be itself" rather the narrative is controlled by Facebook themselves and that narrative is based on more profit engineering and social engineering rather that going with the natural flow. That seems to be the problem.

Not what I'm seeing on Facebook myself.. I'm seeing all types of humanity's viewpoints.

Whistleblower is on a crusade for fame, notoriety and champion for her opinions & biases which we all have. I'm glad Facebook is ignoring her.

Re: Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee

#35

Post by angelzen » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #32

angelzen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of viral news, where the masses somehow take the place of editorial control, is bananas. The average Jane simply has no mental energy to do it properly. No amount of algorithms and bureaucracy can paper over this fundamental reality. We need 5000 professional news outlets competing for the public's trust, not Facebook with a bureaucratic brain eating parasite.

You don't actually believe in democracy if you think that regular people shouldn't get to talk to each other to make political decisions and that some central committee gets to decide which ideas become popular.

Regular people should talk to each other. But that is different than clicking 'like' button on a deluge of information nobody has the time to validate for accuracy or relevance. Worse, what actually gets propagated is not decided by regular people, rather by opaque algorithms controlled by a handful of mega-entities, Facebook / Twitter / Youtube; clicking the 'like' button is merely a loose signal.

Democracy needs healthy competition in the news space.

Re: Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee

#36

Post by quotemstr » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

angelzen wrote: post #35

quotemstr wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't actually believe in democracy if you think that regular people shouldn't get to talk to each other to make political decisions and that some central committee gets to decide which ideas become popular.

Regular people should talk to each other. But that is different than clicking 'like' button on a deluge of information nobody has the time to validate for accuracy or relevance. Worse, what actually gets propagated is not decided by regular people, rather by opaque algorithms controlled by a handful of mega-entities, Facebook / Twitter / Youtube; clicking the 'like' button is merely a loose signal. Democracy needs he…

> But that is different than clicking 'like' button on a deluge of information nobody has the time to validate for accuracy or relevance.

This is exhausting. Over and over again in this thread, I see people use dramatic rhetoric to describe in sweeping terms what Facebook should or should not be allowed to do, but there's seldom any discussion of actual concrete and specific rules.

You say people shouldn't have like buttons? Well, what about HN? Why should't I be able to upvote a comment? Why shouldn't I be able to like a tweet? Is it okay if I have to type out "I like this" instead of clicking a like button?

I get that you're dissatisfied with the current social media environment, but expressions of vague dissatisfaction combined with angry rhetoric don't move us forward. We need to put specific proposals on the table, not just rail against "opaque algorithms" generally.

(Also, the algorithms being "opaque" isn't the problem. I'm sure that people would still have a problem with FB feed ranking even if the code were open source.)

Re: Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee

#37

Post by angelzen » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #36

angelzen wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regular people should talk to each other. But that is different than clicking 'like' button on a deluge of information nobody has the time to validate for accuracy or relevance. Worse, what actually gets propagated is not decided by regular people, rather by opaque algorithms controlled by a handful of mega-entities, Facebook / Twitter / Youtube; clicking the 'like' button is merely a loose signal. Democracy needs he…

> But that is different than clicking 'like' button on a deluge of information nobody has the time to validate for accuracy or relevance. This is exhausting. Over and over again in this thread, I see people use dramatic rhetoric to describe in sweeping terms what Facebook should or should not be allowed to do, but there's seldom any discussion of actual concrete and specific rules. You say people shouldn't have like…

> We need 5000 professional news outlets competing for the public's trust.

The target has been stated. Are you in or are you happy with the social-media era status quo? If you are in, at least in principle, then constructive comments help. If you are out, and happy with FB+Twt+YtB running the show, perhaps with a politically appointed bureaucratic hypercentralized 'oversight board' on top, then enjoy the brave new world. No amount of specific proposals are going to change your mind.

Re: Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee

#38

Post by quotemstr » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

angelzen wrote: post #37

quotemstr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But that is different than clicking 'like' button on a deluge of information nobody has the time to validate for accuracy or relevance. This is exhausting. Over and over again in this thread, I see people use dramatic rhetoric to describe in sweeping terms what Facebook should or should not be allowed to do, but there's seldom any discussion of actual concrete and specific rules. You say people shouldn't have like…

> We need 5000 professional news outlets competing for the public's trust. The target has been stated. Are you in or are you happy with the social-media era status quo? If you are in, at least in principle, then constructive comments help. If you are out, and happy with FB+Twt+YtB running the show, perhaps with a politically appointed bureaucratic hypercentralized 'oversight board' on top, then enjoy the brave new wo…

Who gets to decide what's a professional news outlet? In our new world, everyone is a news outlet, and that's a good thing. If there's one thing that the last decade should have taught us, it's that a professional information gatekeeping class will withhold and distort information to drive its own agenda. Information access needs to be broadly distributed and permissionless, with no line drawn between a "news outlet" and a regular person.

Deep down, what proponents of FB regulation are terrified of the this disintermediated model, and it's repulsive to me to imagine that there's some committee that decides who gets an audience and who doesn't.

Re: Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee

#39

Post by CuriousSkeptic » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #2

The ex-employee wants Facebook to engage in more censorship, spying and control. That's their definition of helping people and democracy. Like Glenn Greenwald said: https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1434854149087182848 >>The entire "anti-disinformation"/"anti-extremism" industry is a gigantic fraud, funded by the same tiny handful of billionaires, governments and NGOs: a scam to control discourse while feigning n…

In the hearing she recommended against censorship (content moderation really), on the basis that it’s futile and ineffective (she claimed algorithms can only flag 10% av what they look for). Instead she recommends softer actions, such as requiring users to actually click a link before sharing, which apparently has shown to an be effective dampener on the spread of disinformation.

Re: Facebook harms children and weakens democracy: ex-employee

#40

Post by angelzen » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 7:47 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #38

angelzen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need 5000 professional news outlets competing for the public's trust. The target has been stated. Are you in or are you happy with the social-media era status quo? If you are in, at least in principle, then constructive comments help. If you are out, and happy with FB+Twt+YtB running the show, perhaps with a politically appointed bureaucratic hypercentralized 'oversight board' on top, then enjoy the brave new wo…

Who gets to decide what's a professional news outlet? In our new world, everyone is a news outlet, and that's a good thing. If there's one thing that the last decade should have taught us, it's that a professional information gatekeeping class will withhold and distort information to drive its own agenda. Information access needs to be broadly distributed and permissionless, with no line drawn between a "news outlet"…

Who decides what's a professional painter? Car builder? Software engineer? The market. A healthy market needs a ton of providers and a ton of consumers. The news market in the social media era is not healthy.

Historical precedent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt#Trust_busti...