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Introducing raspberrypi.com

raspberrypi.org

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Re: Introducing raspberrypi.com

#11

Post by jmuguy »

zozbot234 wrote: post #6
jmuguy wrote: post #3

Completely unrelated but front of mind for me since I had a project die this morning - I really wish they'd release a Pi with eMMC storage instead of just the SD card. I know theres alternatives but none of them have the same community and support as the Pi.

eMMC is literally an "embedded" version of the same storage media as SD cards. If you're worried about your SD card media dying on you then eMMC is strictly worse; SD cards are at least socketed so when one dies you can just replace it. With eMMC you'd have to desolder the chip.

My understanding is that SD cards have a certain write count before they fail (or require a reformat), and that eMMC doesn't. Or that the number of writes before failure is much higher. Is that not correct?

Regardless, I understand that hardware dies. But generally speaking I'd like to be able to deploy a single board system and not have to worry about having to physically maintain it unless it literally fails for some reason.

Re: Introducing raspberrypi.com

#12

Post by bmicraft »

moffkalast wrote: post #8
gertrunde wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Raspberry Pi Compute Module has eMMC storage. [ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-4/?varia... ]

Yeah now it's just a matter of time till someone makes a dock for it that isn't 1 square mile in area: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-4-io-boa... .

There are probably close to a hundred different boards already. Here is a somewhat complete list: https://pipci.jeffgeerling.com/boards_cm

Re: Introducing raspberrypi.com

#13

Post by jmuguy »

gertrunde wrote: post #4
jmuguy wrote: post #3

Completely unrelated but front of mind for me since I had a project die this morning - I really wish they'd release a Pi with eMMC storage instead of just the SD card. I know theres alternatives but none of them have the same community and support as the Pi.

The Raspberry Pi Compute Module has eMMC storage. [ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-4/?varia... ]

Yeah it would just be nice to buy a single piece of hardware that had it baked in.

Re: Introducing raspberrypi.com

#14

Post by zozbot234 »

jmuguy wrote: post #11
zozbot234 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eMMC is literally an "embedded" version of the same storage media as SD cards. If you're worried about your SD card media dying on you then eMMC is strictly worse; SD cards are at least socketed so when one dies you can just replace it. With eMMC you'd have to desolder the chip.

My understanding is that SD cards have a certain write count before they fail (or require a reformat), and that eMMC doesn't. Or that the number of writes before failure is much higher. Is that not correct? Regardless, I understand that hardware dies. But generally speaking I'd like to be able to deploy a single board system and not have to worry about having to physically maintain it unless it literally fails for so…

eMMC is flash media, typically with a very minimalist FTL. Of course it's going to have a write count.

Re: Introducing raspberrypi.com

#15

Post by shrubble »

I am curious if there has been any progress on the removal of all binary blobs from the Pi's?

My understanding is that the GPU is used to boot ThreadX which then allows for Linux to be booted, is that right? Only the embedded-focus Pico chip does not have this.

Re: Introducing raspberrypi.com

#16

Post by bmicraft »

avian wrote: post #10
zozbot234 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eMMC is literally an "embedded" version of the same storage media as SD cards. If you're worried about your SD card media dying on you then eMMC is strictly worse; SD cards are at least socketed so when one dies you can just replace it. With eMMC you'd have to desolder the chip.

In my experience, SD cards and eMMC chips on the Raspberry Pi Compute Modules are night and day in terms of reliability. Brand-name SD cards will fail in 6-12 months of running a typical mostly-idle Linux installation (yes, I've heard it all: power supply quality, improper shutdowns, counterfeit cards, etc. etc. It doesn't matter - SD cards just die all the time) I've yet to see an eMMC chip fail on a Compute Module.…

I've always used Sandisk cards with A1/A2 rating (high iops) since they exist and I've yet to run into a single problem with them. Cards without that rating otoh ...

Re: Introducing raspberrypi.com

#17

Post by OldHand2018 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #14
jmuguy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that SD cards have a certain write count before they fail (or require a reformat), and that eMMC doesn't. Or that the number of writes before failure is much higher. Is that not correct? Regardless, I understand that hardware dies. But generally speaking I'd like to be able to deploy a single board system and not have to worry about having to physically maintain it unless it literally fails for so…

eMMC is flash media, typically with a very minimalist FTL. Of course it's going to have a write count.

Yes, exactly: Tesla found this out the hard way.

Re: Introducing raspberrypi.com

#18

Post by jmuguy »

HideousKojima wrote: post #9
jmuguy wrote: post #3

Completely unrelated but front of mind for me since I had a project die this morning - I really wish they'd release a Pi with eMMC storage instead of just the SD card. I know theres alternatives but none of them have the same community and support as the Pi.

It's a bit finicky to get working/set up (make absolutely certain that your USB to SATA adapter has proper UAS support in ARM Linux), but you can boot the Pi4 off of a USB SSD now. Still might not be what you need, but it's way better than booting from an SD card.

I've gone that route before. My main thought is that it seems like the Pi itself should have more robust/longer lasting storage just be default at this point.

Re: Introducing raspberrypi.com

#19

Post by zozbot234 »

jmuguy wrote: post #18
HideousKojima wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit finicky to get working/set up (make absolutely certain that your USB to SATA adapter has proper UAS support in ARM Linux), but you can boot the Pi4 off of a USB SSD now. Still might not be what you need, but it's way better than booting from an SD card.

I've gone that route before. My main thought is that it seems like the Pi itself should have more robust/longer lasting storage just be default at this point.

What's more robust and longer-lasting than SD and USB sockets? Flash storage is inherently unreliable and prone to failure, so keeping it on pluggable media is the sensible thing to do.

Re: Introducing raspberrypi.com

#20

Post by LeifCarrotson »

moffkalast wrote: post #8
gertrunde wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Raspberry Pi Compute Module has eMMC storage. [ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-4/?varia... ]

Yeah now it's just a matter of time till someone makes a dock for it that isn't 1 square mile in area: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-4-io-boa... .

Like this?

https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/08/10/mincab-smallest-rasp...

That's pretty small! But the point of the CM carrier boards is that they're completely dependent on what IO an individual user wants.

For some, that's dual Ethernet; others have no idea why you would want more than one Ethernet port. Still others don't know why you would want any RJ45 at all: they don't have Ethernet throughout their house except between the modem and the router (if those are separate devices!). They'll just plug a Wifi dongle into the USB hub.

As a carrier board designer, you've got to ask this question for everything from ADCs to Z-Wave wireless. The Raspberry Pi carrier board just included all the defaults provided by the connector, with minimal external components. Also, they did it with a 4-layer board and open-sourced the Kicad design files; if you want a subset of it you can make it!

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