Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party • Hacker News Board

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#451

Post by Igelau » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #383

Igelau wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really exist yet. FAQ: > Is the Forward Party a political party? > The Forward Party is a PAC that plans to grow its support and then petition the FEC for recognition as a political party when we fulfill the requirements, which include operating in several states, supporting candidates, getting volunteers signed up around the country, and other party activities.

This is kind of a technicality, but I guess I deserve it for posing a rhetorical question. My point was to criticise the "launch" for two things: (A) Launching as a single person. (B) focusing on the "if I were king" manifesto paradigm, over an actual political roadmap or theory of what the party is. Ideally, he should be sitting alongside retired senators, serious media people & such. Multiple people who could credi…

The sample size of successfully established political parties in the US is small enough that the rhetorical question went over my head :)

I'm not sure we actually know what works and what doesn't.

> retired senators, serious media people & such. Multiple people who could credibly run for office.

That sounds like a recipe for more of the same. Though so does "I'm making a PAC about it!"

Though this "soft-launch" seems like more vapor than ware. I'd like to see more credibility, I'm just not sure how/when someone is supposed to bootstrap that.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#452

Post by runako » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #439

InitialLastName wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't denial of anthropogenic climate change, rather than simply being a semantic issue, undermine support for any attempt at mitigation?

I don't think so. Again, that's focused very much on semantics. If you dive in and really ask questions, outcomes are seen as the same, even if inputs are seen as different. Pollution is a problem, in their views, even if it isn't causing global warming . The individuals (who I would note are actually very much in the minority) who steadfastly believe global warming isn't real, still identify that changes in species…

Thank you for the thoughtful explanation. Do you have any explanation for why these folks pretty reliably choose representation that pledges to relax environmental protections? Is it possible that they are concerned about the environment, but not concerned enough to matter at any practical level (e.g. given their expressed actions)?

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#453

Post by rjsw » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

matthewmorgan wrote: post #235

hef19898 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny. It was the French Revolution that paved the way for modern democracies in the West. If I remember correctly, the American Revolutionary Army received quite some assistance from them. It is ironic so, the the French ended up with an Emperor so, I have to agree. Not comparing anything to Nazi Germany, but didn't the US have a pretty nasty Civil War? Also, changing things based on the whim of the population is pr…

American revolution happened before the French one.

And the English revolution happened before either of them.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#454

Post by afavour » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

Pelic4n wrote: post #417

afavour wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The man was running for POTUS. Do you expect the men who lead the world to uphold your own moral standard? Yes?!? It’s insane to me how little some people expect of their elected officials. Yes, the cynical side of me knows it’s never going to 100% live up to expectations once they're in power but good grief. "things can never be good, here is a 16th century essay that proves my point" is just self-fulfilling proph…

If you wish to acquire any kind of power, you cannot embarass yourself with right and wrong. Those who compete with you and won't do so will overrun you. Just like companies in a market or competing species in an ecological niche, you need to be as ruthless as possible. The universe has no regards for your morals. And against the Putins and Xi Jipings of the world, I would not want a virtuous saint upheld by a tight…

Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar with the content of The Prince. Studied politics and listened ad nauseam to all the wannabe politicians that worshipped at its altar. Thing is, nothing you've just stated is fact. It's just a viewpoint. Which is fine, but let's not pretend we have some absolute truth in front of us.

Relevant case in point: I live in New York, where until recently we had a governor that was all about ruthless assertion of power and ruled by personality. Then, when he ran into problems everyone turned their back on him because everyone hates him.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#455

Post by js2 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

Yang was recently interviewed by Kara Swisher about this. She's a somewhat adversarial host but he had answers for everything.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/opinion/andrew-yang.html

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#456

Post by eej71 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

gmadsen wrote: post #320

hef19898 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That American obsession with the founding fathers always puzzles me as a non-American. France is in tis 5th Republic, the second since WW2. Germany went through a lot of Government changes since the 18th century as well, as did a lot of other countries in Europe. With the exception of some wierdos nobody puts those long gone governments on a pedestal.

I think its more philosophical than an rubric for actual governance. The constitution was deeply influenced from enlightenment thinkers and basically the first of its kind that influenced the rest of the world.

Agreed!

Towards that end I would recommend the recently published book _America's Revolutionary Mind_. It provides a comprehensive (and sometimes exhausting!) overview of the influence of Locke and other enlightenment thinkers on the evolving mindset of the pre-Revolutionary war era. It's not just a review of well known names - but shows just how much Locke's ideas really reached a large range of the then every day royal subjects of the crown in the colonies.

Even with that - its still amazing we got something as good as the Constitution.

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/44807363-america-s-re...

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#457

Post by dfxm12 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

frankbreetz wrote: post #385

realce wrote: post #353

I raised over 400k for Andrew's POTUS run and devoted a year of my life to running his official Reddit (104k subs at peak), then joined a SuperPAC to further his positions after the run. The campaign team was full of fools who squandered almost every good turn received, most campaign workers were paid less than minimum wage, and Andrew eventually stole the pac's name and branding - Humanity Forward - put everyone out…

This is disappointing to read, I guess it is true what they say: you don't become a billionaire by being a good person.

...some are just born into it.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#458

Post by runako » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

A person who has never won an election (or even received 15% of votes cast) believes himself the appropriate vessel to dictate the political direction of a nation. Is this persistence or arrogance?

Admire the chutzpah, seriously wonder why he isn't using his talents somewhere he might be successful at fixing any of the problems he identifies.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#459

Post by Pelic4n » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #454

Pelic4n wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wish to acquire any kind of power, you cannot embarass yourself with right and wrong. Those who compete with you and won't do so will overrun you. Just like companies in a market or competing species in an ecological niche, you need to be as ruthless as possible. The universe has no regards for your morals. And against the Putins and Xi Jipings of the world, I would not want a virtuous saint upheld by a tight…

Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar with the content of The Prince. Studied politics and listened ad nauseam to all the wannabe politicians that worshipped at its altar. Thing is, nothing you've just stated is fact. It's just a viewpoint. Which is fine, but let's not pretend we have some absolute truth in front of us. Relevant case in point: I live in New York, where until recently we had a governor that was all about ruthless…

>Thing is, nothing you've just stated is fact. It's just a viewpoint. Which is fine, but let's not pretend we have some absolute truth in front of us.

Absolutely! I would like to see a political entity led by Kantian ethical formalists. My opinion is that such a faction couldn't come into power. Let's hope I'm wrong.

>Relevant case in point: I live in New York, where until recently we had a governor that was all about ruthless assertion of power and ruled by personality. Then, when he ran into problems everyone turned their back on him because everyone hates him.

Sure, the history is littered with the corpses of the Hitlers and Mussolinis (and the mountains of corpses they have caused), the small petty tyrants who thought brutality and charisma it was ALL you needed to rule. They meet their ends alone at a moment or another, but this doesn't make a case for the success of ethical leaders either.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#460

Post by temp8964 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

realce wrote: post #353

I raised over 400k for Andrew's POTUS run and devoted a year of my life to running his official Reddit (104k subs at peak), then joined a SuperPAC to further his positions after the run. The campaign team was full of fools who squandered almost every good turn received, most campaign workers were paid less than minimum wage, and Andrew eventually stole the pac's name and branding - Humanity Forward - put everyone out…

> most campaign workers were paid less than minimum wage

This is something really strange. If you work for a campaign, it is very very very very different from working for the Mcdonal's. You work for a campaign because you support its ideology, and you want it to win. You are not trying to make a living by working for a campaign.

I would even say, you are not working for the campaign, you are working for yourself! It's like you are donating to the campaign with your own labor. The relationship between you and the campaign is mutually beneficial. The campaign gets help from you, and you get to use the campaign to fulfil your personal belief. There is no way for you to get the same kind of fulfilment by working in the Mcdonal's. The campaign provides you a platform to express your ideology, a network to find ideological friends.

So, no, you are not exploited by the campaign, nor is the campaign exploited by you. It is a voluntary exchange between you and the campaign for mutual benefits.