Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The whole "socially progressive, economically middle of the road" political coalition that would win every election on HN is extremely unpopular in the real world. I don't know about that, it has won the popular vote in 7 of the past 8 US presidential elections.
I mean let's look: - 2020 - Biden - 2016 - Trump - 2012 - Obama - 2008 - Obama - 2004 - Bush - 2000 - Bush - 1996 - Clinton - 1992 - Clinton I'd think that Bush represented a socially conservative position, and I'm not entirely certain that Trump was any more conservative on particular social issues. Additionally, I think Clinton represented a middle of the road approach to social issues (RFRA, massive deregulation,…
Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
441–450 of 638 posts
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#442What's missing here, IMO, is a party. Who's with him? Do you have defectors from the 2 parties? Independents or popular figures joining up? Candidates being stood? A political party is not a manifesto, it's an organisation. I actually think there's room for a party to start gaining ground in the US. There are so many elected offices that the surface area is huge. Great for "guerilla tactics." IE, earning easy victori…
In 2016 though, if the people who voted Green Party would have voted LP the LP would have earned 5% (instead it earn 3.5%) of the popular vote granting it full federal funding through the entire next election cycle.
It's the closest any third party has come to being validated in decades. During the 2020 cycle, both candidates were duds unfortunately and it showed in the voting.
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
When exactly did Napoleon exterminate and enslave the people of the countries he "conquered" (he usually defeated them in a decisive battle and then had them sign treaties, he never dissolved, e.g. the Prussian Empire). He did reintroduce slavery in the French colonies, and should be called out for it. As should France and all other countries on their colonial history, and they are. A civil war is different in the re…
Sorry I just disagree, and starting wars and killing hundreds of thousands is pretty comparable to exterminating and enslaving people as far as my moral compass is concerned. I'm not really here to defend statues or whatever, but I just don't follow the logic in who we decide was a bad man. > A civil war is different in the regard, that the defeated party is part of the same nation. So yes, I think the better analogy…
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there anything that's not "controversial" in American politics? Has the whole "evolution" thing been settled yet?
It sticks to fairly uncontroversial things. No mention of abortion, evolution, religion, gun rights, etc. As far as I can see.
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#445Earlier quoted context omitted.
>He's not trustworthy, he's a horrible manager of people, and he never pays off on what he promises. The man was running for POTUS. Do you expect the men who lead the world to uphold your own moral standard? From Machiavelli's The Prince: >Every one admits how praiseworthy it is in a prince to keep faith, and to live with integrity and not with craft . Nevertheless our experience has been that those princes who have…
Out of the three things listed, being a horrible manager of people is definitely disqualifying for a presidential candidate (the primary job of the POTS is managing people.) That said, while Machiavelli has a point, the opposite is also true: that many leaders have fallen due to losing the trust of their key supporters. No king rules alone, knowing how to keep your supporters happy while still being flexible is a vit…
Thanks for this shard of realpolitik in this discussion among people disappointed that their hero turns out to not be the hero they thought. Who would have seen that coming?
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#446What's missing here, IMO, is a party. Who's with him? Do you have defectors from the 2 parties? Independents or popular figures joining up? Candidates being stood? A political party is not a manifesto, it's an organisation. I actually think there's room for a party to start gaining ground in the US. There are so many elected offices that the surface area is huge. Great for "guerilla tactics." IE, earning easy victori…
He would do better running as a Libertarian IMO. There's been support for UBI within the LP for a while, the party simply lacks candidates with a compelling story. In 2016 though, if the people who voted Green Party would have voted LP the LP would have earned 5% (instead it earn 3.5%) of the popular vote granting it full federal funding through the entire next election cycle. It's the closest any third party has com…
OTOH, why take on all that baggage when it doesn't come with any votes? Probably makes more sense to recruit former LP and Green figures to run under the new banner.
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#447Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean let's look: - 2020 - Biden - 2016 - Trump - 2012 - Obama - 2008 - Obama - 2004 - Bush - 2000 - Bush - 1996 - Clinton - 1992 - Clinton I'd think that Bush represented a socially conservative position, and I'm not entirely certain that Trump was any more conservative on particular social issues. Additionally, I think Clinton represented a middle of the road approach to social issues (RFRA, massive deregulation,…
Bush was definitely socially conservative. Trump was closer to middle of the road socially. Clinton was middle of the road socially for his time, at best. Trump was more progressive than Clinton. See for Clinton regressiveness: signed welfare reform (Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act); was adamantly against gay marriage (the Defense of Marriage Act); don't ask don't tell; aggressively championed one of…
Clinton tolerated the first medical marijuana program in the US when it was passed in California in 1996 (Prop 215). That was the first significant liberalization of drug laws since 1980; if the Feds had shut it down, the movement may have been significantly slowed.
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#448Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#449I get the business side of politics is to represent people and their interests in the democratic process in exchange for financial support, but forking a party to do it may give you more direct access to those funds for efforts instead of having them filtered and allocated by the mainstream party, but at that point, you might as well just be another lobbyist group.
I could just start The Billionaires Party, whose goal is to ensure the interests of a few thousand people were represented in the democratic process, and if I could blackmail enough members of other parties, billionaires wouldn't be able to afford not to give donations to support my party. But if I wanted to do that, I wouldn't start a party, I would run a lobby group, or as above, organize a caucus of the establishment party members I could bend or compromise.
A party has constraints and restrictions, where a lobby group does not have the same ones, and if you want the benefits of party membership like electability, you give up some of the freedoms of lobbying. Reality is, politics isn't about fixing problems, it's about winning and having your interests prevail, and becoming the people who manage and extract value from problems, not solving them. To adapt a proverb, government isn't in the business of teaching men to fish, it's there to keep him coming back to be fed for a day in exchange for his continued compliance.
Of the options available, starting a new party seems so un-strategic as to be a fast filter to find suckers, like spelling mistakes in spam emails, where if people don't see those, they're likely vulnerable to being taken in. Forking a new party seems like a way to do that same thing.
That said, by splitting the vote in key areas, he can become a policy kingmaker, as is common with minority governments in the parliamentary system, and that's certainly a play, but it essentially reduces strategically to taking hostages to get policy concessions during an election cycle, which does work, but usually only once, and anything that requires follow through after his leverage is gone is going to be dropped and never touched by any party again. A new party is not the recipe for change.
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do not have any personal experience, but sadly it does not sound too surprising from what's been out publicly. The moment he dropped out and immediately got the CNN job really changed my perception of him. Then after some events from his mayoral campaign, such as his Israel comments or the Staten Island ferry cowboy incident, it's pretty clear he is a politician like many others.
I donated to his campaign after seeing him on JRE, and I’ve been getting spam emails from political candidates ever since. I’ve blocked at least 7-8 different “PLEASE DONATE” mailers, but they keep coming. I think Yang sold my info.