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Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

forwardparty.com

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Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#341

Post by smolder »

citboin wrote: post #147
torginus wrote: post #142

Does the 3rd party make sense in the US election system? My impression was that 3rd parties are unhelpful, since they steal voters from ideologically similar parties, thus helping the opposition.

Right now a third party is a wasted vote so we need more than 3 national parties in order for them to be viable alternatives to the current two. The Forward party and Green Party could cooperate in order to make this happen, but that’s probably just wishful thinking on my part.

I really can't see how multiple small parties teaming up helps anything. Maybe you can clarify? For as long as the big two are considered the big two, any number of additional parties act as spoilers.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#342

Post by jasonhansel »

troydavis wrote: post #114

For folks asking why Approval Voting (vote for as many candidates as you want) is more representative than RCV/IRV, here's 2 starting points: * Voter Satisfaction Efficiency: https://electionscience.github.io/vse-sim/VSEbasic/ * Ka-Ping Yee showing how voters' preferences would translate to ballots, then how different election methods picks winners from those ballots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7btAd1HYvjU&t=132…

There's also the issue that IRV is persistently biased against moderates, who might be almost everyone's second choice even if they're almost nobody's first choice.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#343

Post by ericmay »

inglor_cz wrote: post #278
disneygibson wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment that the Founding Fathers cease to be the mythology glue holding the nation together will be the minute that the country fractures into 20 different nation-states.

People seem to take the unity of U.S. for granted. But there is nothing granted about it. The former Spanish colonies from Mexico to Argentina were part of the same empire, speak the same language, derive their legal systems from the same framework, but they shattered into 20 different states and even led wars against one another. The only attempt to build something bigger out of them, Greater Colombia, only lasted f…

> People seem to take the unity of U.S. for granted. But there is nothing granted about it.

I agree completely. It’s hard for us to imagine seeing it break up but there is nothing that prevents that except our general desire to live together.

I think large democracies with functioning governments are very unstable over long time horizons. The reason I mention functioning is that if the government of a large democracy is largely non-functional than you can mostly keep doing whatever you want with whatever cultural norms you have where you live. But a functional one will actually pass laws and actually enact things that affect your life that you may disagree with - look at the current abortion stuff. There is no reconciliation to be had on many of these issues. Or look at the Republicans rhetoric around the debt limit “they’ll have to do it without us” - yikes.

The US has lasted as long as it has because for most of the time the country was somewhat homogenous and where it wasn’t you could “go fuck off into the woods” and nobody would bother you. With that being less of a possibility the country was always on a collision course for instability, but WW2 and the Cold War kept people united around a common enemy that threatened basically held beliefs. With that gone we will either have a new uniting enemy, or we’ll eventually just form some different governments.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#344

Post by ZeroGravitas »

kergonath wrote: post #252
dagw wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Economically middle in the road" is somewhat around classic Social Democrat politics Even more conservative parties in Europe are moving that way. Just look at the Tories in the UK for example, proposing massive government spending plans paid for by raising taxes.

That’s surprising only if you consider the Tories as being economically liberal. They are conservative in the sense that they look after the interests of the old aristocracy and a coalition of the rich. Their policies are intended to benefit a specific subset of the population. Their taxes (as well as things like the universal credit cuts) are perfectly aligned with that ideology. They don’t have a problem with the c…

> They are conservative in the sense that they look after the interests of the old aristocracy and a coalition of the rich.

I thought this was the literal definition of right wing? The side that supported the king against the democratic will of the people?

And is there anyone who has a rhetoric of "less taxes" who actually intends everyone to benefit? That seems like a mirage and it's all done in service of the rich and powerful.

Which is a hard policy to sell to ordinary people, unless you wrap it in some cheap bigotry to confuse them.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#345

Post by irae »

netcan wrote: post #325

What's missing here, IMO, is a party. Who's with him? Do you have defectors from the 2 parties? Independents or popular figures joining up? Candidates being stood? A political party is not a manifesto, it's an organisation. I actually think there's room for a party to start gaining ground in the US. There are so many elected offices that the surface area is huge. Great for "guerilla tactics." IE, earning easy victori…

Everything must have a start. He of course have supporters and media attention. All of the questions are valid, I guess. But I would not call it a missing party, just you didn't find it yet. Also, ask on Twitter and you might get a lot of responses.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#346

Post by joshuaellinger »

I'm surprised nobody mentioned good old H. Ross Perot, the Texas billionaire who made Bill Clinton president in 1992. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot)

Perot peeled off enough libertarian voters from the Republicans to enable a Democratic victory. It odd looking back at him. He was not a proto-Trump exactly but he ran against the NAFTA free trade agreement in a way that looks a lot like how Trump ran against shipping all heavy industry to China.

My first reaction was that Yang is going to splinter the Democratic coalition thus enable Trump to get a second term. But maybe he can pull moderates away from the Republican side (especially in Arizona).

After looking at it for a second time, it looks really out-of-touch with reality and will not have a significant impact. Political polarization isn't a product of a broken political system. People are angry for a damn good reason. It's a reflection of all of the economic gains of the last 40 years going to the billionaires.

Someone has got to take control of the country back from the 0.1% like FDR did. That someone will likely be an unknown politician in the Democratic party who makes them pay for the costs of addressing climate crisis. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that's going to happen any time soon.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#347

Post by Igelau »

netcan wrote: post #325

What's missing here, IMO, is a party. Who's with him? Do you have defectors from the 2 parties? Independents or popular figures joining up? Candidates being stood? A political party is not a manifesto, it's an organisation. I actually think there's room for a party to start gaining ground in the US. There are so many elected offices that the surface area is huge. Great for "guerilla tactics." IE, earning easy victori…

It doesn't really exist yet.

FAQ:

> Is the Forward Party a political party?

> The Forward Party is a PAC that plans to grow its support and then petition the FEC for recognition as a political party when we fulfill the requirements, which include operating in several states, supporting candidates, getting volunteers signed up around the country, and other party activities.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#348

Post by pharke »

rzwitserloot wrote: post #327

America, especially at this time, strikes me as rather very focussed on 'winning'. They're also extremely used (in that it's been that way for almost the entire existence of the country) to a 2-party getup. (That desire to win would strongly indicate that voters want to vote for a winning party and are thus unwilling to go out on a limb and vote for a long shot like this; it will be reflected in the polls which furth…

Isn't this more focused on winning seats in Congress? Independent representatives have been elected or have switched from a party to independent status before. If Yang concentrates efforts on getting more independents elected he could effect significant change which might even lead to the viability of an independent running for president once the strategy has been proven out.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#349

Post by badRNG »

Thrymr wrote: post #332
qsort wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect a huge part of Macron's success was his opponent. France elections have a top-2 runoff, and I wouldn't be surprised if many electors were like "I don't like Macron but I really don't want Le Pen to win". The whole "socially progressive, economically middle of the road" political coalition that would win every election on HN is extremely unpopular in the real world.

> The whole "socially progressive, economically middle of the road" political coalition that would win every election on HN is extremely unpopular in the real world. I don't know about that, it has won the popular vote in 7 of the past 8 US presidential elections.

I mean let's look:

- 2020 - Biden

- 2016 - Trump

- 2012 - Obama

- 2008 - Obama

- 2004 - Bush

- 2000 - Bush

- 1996 - Clinton

- 1992 - Clinton

I'd think that Bush represented a socially conservative position, and I'm not entirely certain that Trump was any more conservative on particular social issues. Additionally, I think Clinton represented a middle of the road approach to social issues (RFRA, massive deregulation, "begrudgingly" signed Defense of Marriage Act, etc.) On economic issues, they all fall somewhere between middle of the road and hardline neoliberalism.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#350

Post by jean_tta »

hef19898 wrote: post #176
jagrsw wrote: post #159

".. because our founding fathers .." It's interesting to see that all sides of political dispute in US, even parties (like this one) which want to cater to the seemingly more rational and less emotional part of the populace use the argument of "the founding fathers wanted it this way, so... that must be the correct way of doing things forever".

That American obsession with the founding fathers always puzzles me as a non-American. France is in tis 5th Republic, the second since WW2. Germany went through a lot of Government changes since the 18th century as well, as did a lot of other countries in Europe. With the exception of some wierdos nobody puts those long gone governments on a pedestal.

Every country has its own myths to both give legitimacy to the government and unify the people around a national project. Sure, the US is more extreme in its focus on its foundation as the core of its national myth, but is it so different from the French left rhetoric about the CNR program or the French right name dropping the founder of the (latest) republic left and right?
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