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Clean environment could become U.N. human right

reuters.com

11–20 of 152 posts

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#11
post #5

If you declare too many things to a "human right" it removes wiggle room for good policy making. Also, the US already has stronger rules against vehicle pollution than the EU (in terms of pollution that directly damage health like NOx and PM). If it's going to become a "human right" then countries who propose it should be leading it in the first place.

>US already has stronger rules against vehicle pollution

The whole US or only same states?

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#12
post #3

> Washington also referred to legal concerns as well as worries that recognising new rights could dilute traditional civil and political rights, according to sources following the talks. Totally makes sense to me really. It's just enables genocidal dictatorships to go full "what about" when called out for their crimes. Yes, we just exterminated a small nation, but look how much U.S. companies pollute!

not sure I follow, we can't create new ecological rights because some countries might do better on them than the US, so the only legitimate rights on the planet are the ones that extend the political power of the United States?

Because you know the exact thing you're afraid of has actually been done in the name of civil liberties and political rights, how many small nations have been crushed in the name of freedom and democracy in the last half century?

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#14
post #7
post #3

> Washington also referred to legal concerns as well as worries that recognising new rights could dilute traditional civil and political rights, according to sources following the talks. Totally makes sense to me really. It's just enables genocidal dictatorships to go full "what about" when called out for their crimes. Yes, we just exterminated a small nation, but look how much U.S. companies pollute!

I mean this as an honest question: why does that matter? Diplomatically, why would any other country care about a genocidal dictatorships pronouncements of hypocrisy? That already happens, and it already doesn’t stop sanctions and other consequences, from my limited understanding of geopolitics.

It matters as much as recognizing anything as a human right formally matters. U.N. is not good at enforcing human rights really, but it's better than nothing, and diluting it further is a step to "nothing" in my opinion.

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#15
Translation: USA and Britian are big on globalization, and they don't want to be held accountable for any collateral damage.

That is, for example, the Beijing smog, well those countries own a fair percentage of that. Off-shoring manufacturing isn't only about cost of labour. It's also about less (environmental) regulation.

The USA is fond of highlighting it's progress on the environment, but it consistently fails to mention the problem wasn't solved, but most often simply off-shore'd. We also love to present as taking the high road on human rights. Something like this would ruin that (false*) narrative.

* The USA's incarceration rate comes to mind.

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#16
post #3

> Washington also referred to legal concerns as well as worries that recognising new rights could dilute traditional civil and political rights, according to sources following the talks. Totally makes sense to me really. It's just enables genocidal dictatorships to go full "what about" when called out for their crimes. Yes, we just exterminated a small nation, but look how much U.S. companies pollute!

I agree. Even if you keep it within ecology, entities (companies/countries) have been allowed to focus on CO2 emissions while downplaying particulate emissions, water contamination, etc. “Look at my slick PR campaign. We’ve been buying carbon credits! Just don’t test the water downstream from our Chinese factory. “

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#17
This article is weirdly devoid of relevant information about the objections. They mention legal concerns from Washington but don’t explain them for some reason.

I’m also very confused about this line about halfway down the article:

> The United States is not currently a Council member but is vying for a seat and can still join debates as an observer.

Are they saying that the US isn’t even a voting member of the council making the decision? It seems like a huge exaggeration to say the US is interfering with the resolution when they’re not even voting yes or no on it.

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#18

The US and Britain aren't saying no to a clean environment - BP, Chevron, and Exxon are.

They're saying no to a Chinese puppet org (the UN) using clean environment as an attack on them while China does nothing to address their environmental impact.

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#19
post #11
post #5

If you declare too many things to a "human right" it removes wiggle room for good policy making. Also, the US already has stronger rules against vehicle pollution than the EU (in terms of pollution that directly damage health like NOx and PM). If it's going to become a "human right" then countries who propose it should be leading it in the first place.

>US already has stronger rules against vehicle pollution The whole US or only same states?

Generally the rules are stronger and the (post sale) enforcement is weaker (because turning the screws on the poors over a check engine light isn't as tractable for us as it is for Europe, generally speaking).

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#20

China has been denying people human rights daily, what does the UN do to them?

China is a disgusting bully. They’re intentionally rattling people in Taiwan by flying war planes at them to “stress them out”. The UN is a joke. Something should be done.

>The UN is a joke.

That is the way the UN was originally set up. The UN has no instruments of its own to enforce anything.

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