Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's important not to confuse the goal with the action. I don't think he wants to become a politician. He wants to enact political change. These are two very different things. Saying "if he wants to enact political change, why not start as city councillor?" Well... how many democrats or republicans are pushing for change? No one who is born and raised in party lines is pushing for reform; they're doing the op…
I think he wants to be a celebrity and he wants people to buy his book.
Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
321–330 of 638 posts
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
And their slogan is still on coins (Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite). But how exactly does Napoleon figure into that again? In the way the Founding Fathers still influence modern US politics?
I think I explained how Napoleon fits in, as a response to your original Basing 21st Century politics on something written in the 18th century is weird bit. France has laws based on an early 19th century system, its motto is an 18th century slogan, its modern constitution straight up begins by #including an 18th century document. I can't actually find a reference to 'founding fathers' in the linked page but maybe the…
I don't think it quite is. There's references to phrases from founding documents - which Americans often invoke ("we the people", "shall not be abridged", etc). But there's still an awful lot of reference to "Founding Fathers" specifically. I'm not sure you can listen to more than a few hours of right wing radio in the US without someone invoking Madison, Jefferson or whoever else fits their particular talking point for that moment. The individuals' names, and their writings, are still very much referenced outside of individual slogans.
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
It reminded me of "twirling towards freedom": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:The_Simpsons/Character_... I hadn't realised just how much Macron's party materialized from nowhere. Must have been huge pent-up demand for an alternative. However I suspect that only works in systems that aren't FPTP in the first place, and I suspect Macron is going to the same nowhere that all American third-party candidates go. Espe…
This wasn't exactly a FPTP situation. First, the presidential election spans over two rounds. Second, about a month later, the legislative elections (two rounds also) were won too with a proper tsunami (350 out of 577 seats, providing a governing majority). When he won the presidential election, everybody thought it was no big deal, as he hadn't shown a single viable candidate to staff any of the 577 seats in the par…
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#324The top line, "Not Left. Not Right. Forward." kind of reminds me of Macron's "En Marche" ("Let's Go") that took over France in a storm, taking over the presidency AND the parliament only one year after its foundation, with very few previously known political figures in its ranks. The whole thing looked like doing management rather than politics, and offered an alternative to fed-up voters who didn't dare turn to the…
I suspect a huge part of Macron's success was his opponent. France elections have a top-2 runoff, and I wouldn't be surprised if many electors were like "I don't like Macron but I really don't want Le Pen to win". The whole "socially progressive, economically middle of the road" political coalition that would win every election on HN is extremely unpopular in the real world.
... except Germany?
I think it's more popular on the ground than you'd think, but it's very unpopular in the media who like their politics to be professional wrestling.
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#325A political party is not a manifesto, it's an organisation.
I actually think there's room for a party to start gaining ground in the US. There are so many elected offices that the surface area is huge. Great for "guerilla tactics." IE, earning easy victories by picking the battle..
Maybe your pick a thousand low key positions, and work on them. Standing a thousand candidates with success, even if the offices are minor, makes you a full fledged party by default.
Uncompetitive regional strongholds, are another opportunity. You could split the large party's vote and earn immediate relevance. You could even split the small party's vote and try to steal 2nd place. That might make you one half of a dichotomy the next time. You could run candidates in republican or democratic primaries. The primary electoral system is diverse, so you can choose to do this where it has a chance.
So, where's the party? Who's running? Where/what? Who else is involved?
A political manifesto is OK, I guess. A party manifesto... that would be a lot more interesting. What are you planning to do?
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#326The top line, "Not Left. Not Right. Forward." kind of reminds me of Macron's "En Marche" ("Let's Go") that took over France in a storm, taking over the presidency AND the parliament only one year after its foundation, with very few previously known political figures in its ranks. The whole thing looked like doing management rather than politics, and offered an alternative to fed-up voters who didn't dare turn to the…
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#327Thus, unless I'm really missing something, this party can't actually win anything and will just siphon off a few votes. I don't think it's particularly easy to determine which party gets more votes 'siphoned out', but any effect on actual winners of elections that this party might have is focussed solely around:
[A] if it siphons significantly more votes off of one party vs. the other, and
[B] if either major party is afraid of getting the short end of the stick in the above, and will slightly change their platform (or at least their message) in order to prevent it from happening.
I can see an argument that engendering change in politics can be done even if you stand no chance of winning by changing the focus of public discourse, but given the polarized nature of the US, shouldn't you first, I dunno, start a party that tries to fix elections e.g. by applying the ranked voting system as used for e.g. New York majoral elections, or Maine's governor, to presidential elections?
Until then whatever message Yang cares to put out there will just be drowned out by the masses eager to just paint them as an insiduous tool of the opposition, where all they will accomplish is to siphon votes off of the party that they are most similar to (probably the democratic party at this point in time). Thus, giving Yang and whomever likes his points the opposite effect: A vote for Yang is actually like half a vote in favour of the party you'd least want to govern.
Even if you think that's an acceptable sacrifice on the road to a new party / a change in politics, it's not going to work simply because the news will obviously paint this new party as utterly irrelevant except in regards to which party it siphons more votes off of. Nobody will even be talking about what this party stands for.
Am I missing something, or is it all just doomed, in that such a party can neither win, nor meaningfully influence the topic?
Maybe Ross Perot had the right idea by tossing down a giant bag of cash to air very long ads that explained his idea to the populace. That way, his take on things was at least part of public discourse (regardless of how you feel about said ideas).
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#328No one will be paying attention to this in a year. New political don’t start from 1 person who has not held office and failed twice to win an election.
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, it isn’t weird, it’s simply rejecting the frankly naive notion that you should change everything all the time according to the whims of the populace. History and human nature didn’t begin in 1950. Again, the US has never had anything remotely as horrible as the French Revolution or Nazi Germany. That’s likely a consequence of a constitutional government with limited powers. The United Kingdom is in a very similar…
Ah, the "a republic isn't a democracy" trope. That debunked so often, I won't even go there here. You're right with the french revolution so. Doesn't change the fact the French supported the US a lot. And yes, the French Revolution is seen, rightly so if you ask me despite the Terror and so on, as the first real modern democracy in Europe. At a time when Europe was reigned by Kings and Emperors. A side note, I really…
He tried to conquer a bunch of places. That's generally not seen kindly in the modern era.
Also he lost, which generally allows one's opponents to control the narrative.
Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party
#330The top line, "Not Left. Not Right. Forward." kind of reminds me of Macron's "En Marche" ("Let's Go") that took over France in a storm, taking over the presidency AND the parliament only one year after its foundation, with very few previously known political figures in its ranks. The whole thing looked like doing management rather than politics, and offered an alternative to fed-up voters who didn't dare turn to the…
This. I want someone who will throw the culture war out the window (both the left and right wings of it) and focus 100% on competent problem solving and execution and on real world practical problems facing the country.
These are problems like infrastructure, transportation, water security in the West, energy modernization and decarbonization, repatriation of critical manufacturing capabilities (or at least making the country attractive for it), bringing government services into the digital age, and so on.
"Competence!" should be the battle cry of this movement.
The culture war gets everyone to focus on culture war issues instead of the basic competence of the candidates, leading to the election of the likes of reality show star bullshit artists and people with early stage dementia.