Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party • Hacker News Board

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#211

Post by mschuster91 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 9:05 AM UTC

qsort wrote: post #196

Karto wrote: post #158

The top line, "Not Left. Not Right. Forward." kind of reminds me of Macron's "En Marche" ("Let's Go") that took over France in a storm, taking over the presidency AND the parliament only one year after its foundation, with very few previously known political figures in its ranks. The whole thing looked like doing management rather than politics, and offered an alternative to fed-up voters who didn't dare turn to the…

I suspect a huge part of Macron's success was his opponent. France elections have a top-2 runoff, and I wouldn't be surprised if many electors were like "I don't like Macron but I really don't want Le Pen to win". The whole "socially progressive, economically middle of the road" political coalition that would win every election on HN is extremely unpopular in the real world.

> The whole "socially progressive, economically middle of the road" political coalition that would win every election on HN is extremely unpopular in the real world.

Is it? "Economically middle in the road" is somewhat around classic Social Democrat politics, a staple of European politics. The problem with the classic European Social Democrat parties is that they shot themselves in their feet by a combination of neoliberalism (e.g. German SPD post-2005/Hartz IV or British Labour) and individual scandals (corruption).

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#212

Post by cabalamat » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 9:07 AM UTC

I'm surprised the Forward party / Yang's platform doesn't include UBI, as that is the main thing he's known for.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#213

Post by mattowen_uk » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 9:08 AM UTC

Am I misinformed? As non American, I was under the impression that there could only be two parties, and everyone else had to be independent?

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#214

Post by vkou » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 9:08 AM UTC

29083011397778 wrote: post #154

vkou wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Platform page lists a selection of positions that I think would not be very controversial. The positions may not be, but voting for anything but R or D is very controversial, because by voting third party in the US, you are helping the choice you like least win. There is exactly zero chance that a third party will gain any meaningful amount of power, so all you are doing is throwing your vote away. Maybe you're…

This is a little self-defeating, even for our current political systems. Recently, there was a Canadian election. While we use FPTP here, many chose to vote NDP. They are effectively a third party, and were unlikely to hold even a minority government. But neither incumbent party put forward anything, or anyone, more compelling. So those voting NDP were given two choices: they could vote for something barely better th…

Canada has a different political culture, and changing that is even harder than changing a political system. The only reason the Liberals and the NDP continue to exist as separate organizations[1] is because the Tories can't get more than a third of the vote in any particular riding, so the Lib/NDP leadership can continue to be big fish in their own ponds. If the CPC enjoyed the voter turnout that either of the major US parties enjoyed, Canada would either be a two-party system (as the Libs and NDP would merge, if they ever wanted to win a single seat ever again) with a regional spoiler (BQ) that ensured minority governments, or would be permanently ruled by the Tories.

[1] Their politics couldn't be more similar. Look at how provincial NDP parties govern, and tell me how it differs from the Federal Liberals. (It doesn't.)

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#215

Post by tlocke » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 9:10 AM UTC

disneygibson wrote: post #189

hef19898 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the 5th French Republic is going well since the 50s, isn't it? As is the post-war BRD in Germany. Both used to have an Emperor at some point, Italy went from Kingdom to Facist regime to democracy. So yes, if the situation changes you can change your government form. Basing 21st Century politics on something written in the 18th century is... weird. Especially as it is more the interpretation of what the authors…

No, it isn’t weird, it’s simply rejecting the frankly naive notion that you should change everything all the time according to the whims of the populace. History and human nature didn’t begin in 1950. Again, the US has never had anything remotely as horrible as the French Revolution or Nazi Germany. That’s likely a consequence of a constitutional government with limited powers. The United Kingdom is in a very similar…

The UK is different from the USA because it doesn't have a written constitution. Then UK has a parliamentary system but the USA has a presidential system. I'd say that from a constitutional perspective the US system is most similar to the French system.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#216

Post by cabalamat » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 9:10 AM UTC

_jal wrote: post #95

digbybk wrote: post #63

I was excited about Yang’s candidacy in the NYC mayoral election, but it didn’t take very long to see that he was out of his depth. In the end, he didn’t even rank in my top 5 (NYC has ranked choice now). Why does he keep running for top positions? He clearly doesn’t have a record of success as an executive, either in private or public sectors. He seems like a nice guy. If he wants to get into politics, why not start…

I mostly agree. He wants to project a competent-technocrat, "no bull" image, but is so far out of his depth that he comes across as the opposite. He also seems weirdly inflexible, for someone who wants a job that involves unpleasant choices all day, every day.

> He also seems weirdly inflexible

How is he inflexible?

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#217

Post by bonhasgone » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 9:11 AM UTC

cabalamat wrote: post #212

I'm surprised the Forward party / Yang's platform doesn't include UBI, as that is the main thing he's known for.

It is mentioned on the site

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#218

Post by 0x142857 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 9:11 AM UTC

carlosdp wrote: post #98

I feel like a lot of people take it as obvious that ranked-choice is just better. I have an alternate take: We just went through a simple first-past-the-post election in the US that a significant percentage of voters believe was rigged. This is the simplest system imaginable, the data is easily available to verify it was not rigged. Do we really think the average american will be able to grok how ranked-choice voting…

do you really think those people don't understand how the current vote works? you can't wake up a person who is pretending to be asleep..

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#219

Post by 5etho » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 9:13 AM UTC

mattowen_uk wrote: post #213

Am I misinformed? As non American, I was under the impression that there could only be two parties, and everyone else had to be independent?

yes you are, there a lot of parties, even communissm one's. But it's true they always lose due to neoliberalism of bliionaires and millionaires class

just a take, also non americam, dont' know why green and liberals don't stand a chanc to go to congress

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#220

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #136

aazaa wrote: post #2

The Platform page lists a selection of positions that I think would not be very controversial. https://www.forwardparty.com/platform Surprisingly, the issue that Yang is known for, UBI, is not on the list. UBI is, however, present here: https://www.forwardparty.com/whyforward I wonder if that was accidental.

> The Platform page lists a selection of positions that I think would not be very controversial. The positions may not be, but voting for anything but R or D is very controversial, because by voting third party in the US, you are helping the choice you like least win. There is exactly zero chance that a third party will gain any meaningful amount of power, so all you are doing is throwing your vote away. Maybe you're…

> There is exactly zero chance that a third party will gain any meaningful amount of power

The US has had a two party system since about its second election under the Constitution, but only one of the current parties has a direct lineage to the original two. The second party of the two-party system has been replaced twice. It could happen again.

OTOH, it won't happen with a platform that isn't very controversial (that's two easy for one or the other major party to coopt—or both in pieces); it would only happen with a platform with a strong position on a controversial issue where a sizable fraction of the population has views more strongly opposed to one major parties position than the other existing major party is willing to take.