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Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

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231–240 of 699 posts

Re: Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

#231

> And if social media were as responsible for polarizing society as some people claim, then why are we seeing polarization increase in the US while it stays flat or declines in many countries with just as heavy use of social media around the world? That's a point I've made myself before, and I think there is some truth to it. Social media can't explain the high and increasing degree of US political polarisation, beca…

murdoch

Re: Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

#232

> And if social media were as responsible for polarizing society as some people claim, then why are we seeing polarization increase in the US while it stays flat or declines in many countries with just as heavy use of social media around the world? That's a point I've made myself before, and I think there is some truth to it. Social media can't explain the high and increasing degree of US political polarisation, beca…

The fact that people such as Peter Turchin predicted a peak in US political polarization starting in around 2020 (a prediction made in a published paper in an academic journal in 2010) shows that surely FB is not the immediate cause. But that's kind of like how gasoline doesn't start fires. It doesn't, but it accelerates them, and makes the consequences worse.

Re: Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

#233
Not surprised to see Mark get all defensive. It is very simple to analyze this objectively. They want to make huge profits and they want people to use FB as much as possible. Fine. That's their right. They are neither evil nor saints. Similarly, use of the service has toxic effects on many many of its users especially young ones (no matter what Mark and their team says). That's obviously not good but also must be recognised as a voluntary choice to engage in a platform that causes mental health issues. If we look at it straight, my opinion is that the solution isn't really regulation but merely that more of us need to stop using social media and parents should not allow kids to have an account until they are adults.

Re: Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

#234
post #68

I'm having a hard time reconciling all this right now. On the one hand, from the outside, I can see the actions that Facebook takes and they seem awfully guilty of what they are accused of. But on the other hand, I personally know and have previously worked with some of the people who work on trust and safety, specifically for kids. Good people who have kids of their own and who care about protecting people, especial…

> So maybe Zuck is telling the truth here, that they are trying to fix all this. But no one can see the forest from the trees. Ah, this is what I think of as Schrodinger's Accountability. Zuckerberg and Facebook's senior execs are simultaneously: A) so brilliant for running Facebook that they deserve to be incredibly rich, and B) so normal that they can't possibly be expected to understand the consequences of their a…

You may be missing the point if you think your point is orthogonal to theirs. Mark Zuckerberg doesn't have to be painted as a reptiloid in order for his actions to be bad, or for those actions to cause harm. More than blaming shit needs to get fixed right? We can still hold people culpable, but we don't need to do that, don't need to indict anyone before trying to fix a problem that is self perpetuating due to individual incentives and a complete lack of oversight.

Re: Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

#235
post #68

I'm having a hard time reconciling all this right now. On the one hand, from the outside, I can see the actions that Facebook takes and they seem awfully guilty of what they are accused of. But on the other hand, I personally know and have previously worked with some of the people who work on trust and safety, specifically for kids. Good people who have kids of their own and who care about protecting people, especial…

I mean, that's what it might be. This might be the "banality of evil", an emergent property of social networks themselves. If this is the case then we have a harder question ahead of us as an entire world: how do we fix the problems of pandora's box?

Re: Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person who mentions the banality of evil, dannykwells, has an excellent point. But there's more at play here. I briefly worked on Twitter's anti-abuse engineering. Many of the people on that team cared a lot about protecting people. I sure did. But we didn't have the necessary power to actually solve the problem. The people who did have that power were senior execs. They might say that they cared. In their heart…

There is a phenomenon I have witnessed working both in high growth startups and traditional Fortune 500s. At some point, the company starts attracting Dark Triad personality types that cement themselves in upper management positions, usually starting at Director level. These people are extremely dangerous, one of them had access to my corporate laptop (as was standard policy for that company) and would torment me by…

You're absolutely 100% correct. About 2.5% of people have have an inverted viewpoint of their own survival. Meaning, they think they need to squash others down in order to feel superior. As opposed to the logical path which is raise your team together and effectively lead to greater prosperity for all.

Re: Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

#237

With the caveat that I don’t know much about Facebook’s research projects… the question “If we wanted to ignore research, why would we create an industry-leading research program to understand these important issues in the first place?” sets alarm bells ringing for me—because I can imagine a cigarette company saying the same thing about the scientists they hired to argue that smoking isn’t so bad after all, or an oil…

I think that the point here is that all the controversy is because of a study from Facebook's own research. If a cigarette company came out with a study showing cigarettes were dangerous, perhaps it would be a different story. Of course, I wouldn't say that being aware of the problems your product causes makes you less culpable; just the opposite.

Its no different from exxon realizing climate change is real and hiding itm A scandal that shows no morales, but not illegal.

Re: Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

#238
post #68

I'm having a hard time reconciling all this right now. On the one hand, from the outside, I can see the actions that Facebook takes and they seem awfully guilty of what they are accused of. But on the other hand, I personally know and have previously worked with some of the people who work on trust and safety, specifically for kids. Good people who have kids of their own and who care about protecting people, especial…

I can care about many things. Eating healthy, getting exercise, reading.

My actions can show otherwise. IE: im going to go eat a slice of cake, sit down and watch TV tonight.

My priorities and actions don't appear to be inline and the result I'm going for won't be met.

Re: Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

#239
post #68

I'm having a hard time reconciling all this right now. On the one hand, from the outside, I can see the actions that Facebook takes and they seem awfully guilty of what they are accused of. But on the other hand, I personally know and have previously worked with some of the people who work on trust and safety, specifically for kids. Good people who have kids of their own and who care about protecting people, especial…

Zuckerberg is making an almost entirely emotional appeal in his statement. Most of his claims are not backed up / buttressed with facts, numbers, and specifics. The statement is designed to make a reader feel bad for Facebook as if Facebook was a friend, and not a corporation with billions of dollars in quarterly profits. Though the statement seems well-meaning, etc., it is weaselly and manipulative. It also convenie…

"Ethiopia violence: Facebook to blame, says runner Gebrselassie" This is the headline from BBC in 2019. It makes me so angry and upset. If facebook was run ethically how much smaller would it really be? 10%? 20%? I can't help think that although they would lose some customers they would also gain others.

Re: Statement from Mark Zuckerberg

#240
post #68

I'm having a hard time reconciling all this right now. On the one hand, from the outside, I can see the actions that Facebook takes and they seem awfully guilty of what they are accused of. But on the other hand, I personally know and have previously worked with some of the people who work on trust and safety, specifically for kids. Good people who have kids of their own and who care about protecting people, especial…

Seems like you more than anyone would see that solving the types of problems FB is trying to solve eg: freedom of speech vs user safety / harm reduction is not some super simple problem, no? I wouldn't call Reddit evil despite the fact that many powermods are both amazing contributors doing free labor and curating great communities while also simultaneously abusing their power every day to silence people they disagre…

Point of order: the issue with Facebook is the various engagement algorithms that they are and have been perfecting. This is unlike anything humans have ever seen before. We are no longer anywhere near to 'the ground'.
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