Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. The mainstream news pushed numerous stories over the past years without those rudimentary truthiness checks. 2. I disagree with many points in that paragraph: - echo chambers: when was the last time you heard a nuanced "from the other aisle" opinion from a NYT reader; an opinion that wasn't covered in the NYT. Same echo chamber, just a different format. - news companies are small and irrelevant: Seems like this na…
I read the times almost everyday and have plenty of conservative opinions. The Times has multiple conservative columnists and consistently publishes conservative op-eds.
Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs
611–620 of 734 posts
Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs
#612Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you get too big, you can't buy your competition (e.g. FB buying IG). Or if you get too big, you have to open your stuff up like email does. Or if you lie to congress, you get penalized. Or if you get too big, you have to make your algorithms publicly available.
Yeah but that's just an American-centric take, there's plenty of companies out there that don't give a flying f*ck about American laws and congress.
If they don't operate in America, then I don't give a fuck what they do.
Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs
#613I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…
That is the problem of following the absolute minimum standards in life - we (the society as a whole) have accepted that as long as businesses follow the law, its all good. We've accepted that the sole purpose of businesses is to make money within the bounds of the law. While this makes sense logically, it isn't good for anyone in the long run, practically. Also remember that all kinds of unfair laws can be passed, i…
Capitalism (with legal guardrails and social policies) works because it accepts that you can't fully stop greed.
Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs
#614Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. The mainstream news pushed numerous stories over the past years without those rudimentary truthiness checks. 2. I disagree with many points in that paragraph: - echo chambers: when was the last time you heard a nuanced "from the other aisle" opinion from a NYT reader; an opinion that wasn't covered in the NYT. Same echo chamber, just a different format. - news companies are small and irrelevant: Seems like this na…
I read the times almost everyday and have plenty of conservative opinions. The Times has multiple conservative columnists and consistently publishes conservative op-eds.
Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs
#615Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really appreciate this point. I often see it as written rules (laws) and unwritten rules (ethics). If something breaks the unwritten rules we have about how people are supposed to interact with each other, then we often codify that rule into law. Many people will say "I didn't break the law" but where many people would say that person did break an unwritten law. > There should be no question, that what FB is doing…
If a poem (or book) makes 10% of its readers more likely to become geniuses and contribute to solving world problems such as cancer, but 0.1% of its readers are more likely to commit suicide, should that book be banned by law? Today's online society is based on posts created by content creators around the world, where algorithms can barely scratch the surface at interpreting their content, humans don't scale in revie…
I really don't know the answer. I've struggled with this tradeoff myself, as I've built some tools that have powerfully impacted people on an emotional level and I've been hesitant to put them out there because of the severe damage they might do to a small percentage of the population.
That being said, I read a few essays a few years back about Frankenstein and this from a Q&A[0] in the same Slate series[1] that I try to remember when I think about creating such tools:
> Does that make it into a warning against playing God?
> It’s probably a mistake to suggest that the novel is just a critique of those who would usurp the divine mantle. Instead, you can read it as a warning about the ways that technologists fall short of their ambitions, even in their greatest moments of triumph.
> Look at what happens in the novel: After bringing his creature to life, Frankenstein effectively abandons it. Later, when it entreats him to grant it the rights it thinks it deserves, he refuses. Only then—after he reneges on his responsibilities—does his creation really go bad. We all know that Frankenstein is the doctor and his creation is the monster, but to some extent it’s the doctor himself who’s made monstrous by his inability to take responsibility for what he’s wrought.
I try to remind myself of this lesson that perhaps it's not about not creating powerful things but trying to continue to maintain these things instead of abandoning them and just accepting the havoc they wreaked.
I think where I often feel the most frustrated is in believing that FB doesn't really seem to me to be trying that hard in 1) making the platform less addictive, 2) getting rid of bots, 3) suggesting which legislation they want (instead of just punting and say "we said we want regulation, it's your job Congress to create it"), etc.
I don't think they'll ever get rid of all the things that cause harm, as it's even hard to choose dinner for a party of 4 where someone won't get hurt or angry, and this is a scale almost 1 billion times larger. I just want to have the impression that they are trying, or at the bare minimum, that they have the courage to say that sometimes bad things come with the good and they openly say that they are choosing that tradeoff. Maybe they've said it that way, I just don't seem to trust them much in terms of trying to take responsibility for their creation.
[0]: https://slate.com/technology/2017/01/why-frankenstein-is-sti...
[1]: https://slate.com/tag/futurography-frankenstein
*edit: formatting line breaks
Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs
#616Earlier quoted context omitted.
I considered the widely-used 'hot' algorithm and I don't think that really qualifies as a 'creative work' on the part of the site. The 'top from last hour/day/month/year' and 'hot' algorithms are really elementary sorting methods that are in the same league as FIFO.
Who gets to decide what algorithms are simple enough to be legal? You? Why? All a ranking algorithm is doing is making suggestions that certain content be read before other content. That's protected speech.
I'm not talking about the legality, I'm talking about the liability. If one user posts defamatory/libelous speech and Facebook decides to blast it to 1 billion users because their secret sauce algorithm found that it really cranks the revenue dial, Facebook should share some culpability in that defamation lawsuit. A basic 'hot' algorithm that's not designed by squadrons of PhDs running machine learning on user behavior analysis isn't really the same thing, culpability-wise, imho.
Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs
#617I don’t personally use FB and don’t have a very favorable view of their products. I would, however, like to see the same level scrutiny applied to the general American media, especially the news media. FB has come in and started eating their lunch. There’s a deeper problem here, and it feels more like the powers that he want to take down FB. I’m not denying any allegation made against FB, but why is it that Fox News,…
Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs
#618Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs
#619Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who gets to decide what algorithms are simple enough to be legal? You? Why? All a ranking algorithm is doing is making suggestions that certain content be read before other content. That's protected speech.
> Who gets to decide what algorithms are simple enough to be legal? You? Why? I'm not talking about the legality, I'm talking about the liability. If one user posts defamatory/libelous speech and Facebook decides to blast it to 1 billion users because their secret sauce algorithm found that it really cranks the revenue dial, Facebook should share some culpability in that defamation lawsuit. A basic 'hot' algorithm th…
A "hot" algorithm can blast high engagement libel in front of people as well as a fancy algorithm.
If the "hot" algorithm and the fancier algorithm are both content neutral, on what basis can you distinguish the two as a matter of law?
Does the hot algorithm become illegal if a PhD implements it? I'm at a loss about what distinction you're actually trying to draw.
Your post, like many others on this thread, isn't articulating exactly what about FB's conduct you find objectionable?
Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs
#620Earlier quoted context omitted.
“Fire in a crowded theater” comes from the Supreme Court upholding the criminal conviction of a man handing out pamphlets protesting the WW1 draft. Not exactly the precedent I’d reach for if I was trying to argue that governmental regulation of speech is not dangerous.
Facebook Groups have been host to many organized acts of violence. The Kenosha shooting comes to mind as a recent example where the Group was reported to Facebook and made it through multiple layers of review before being allowed to persist. To say that such speech is protected under the First Amendment is too much of a stretch.