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Is 40 the New 60?

neverworkintheory.org

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Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#351

Post by Tarucho »

pjmlp wrote: post #166
namelessoracle wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key here is Principal. 40 plus is considered fine and good for Architects/Managers and people in leadership positions. Try to get a senior engineer or below job where you are expected to be grinding out code instead.

About the same age as the one you are replying to, usually the best way to work around that is consulting, where you are expected to be business analyst, architect, devops and coder in one package. Granted, not everyone enjoys doing it, and it comes with lots of politics as baggage as well.

what do you mean by consulting? going through agencies? freelancing?

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#352

Post by emerged »

datavirtue wrote: post #252
FrankyHollywood wrote: post #29

I'm in my 40s, and I build software at a scale-up. They explicitly searched more mature developers, because of several failed projects with large over spending the past years. Management had enough of it, and now wants a more experienced dev team. And it works quit well I must say, code quality is very high and we make our deadlines. Our product is stable and atmosphere in the office is great actually. Not much stres…

I work in a senior-only consulting S-Corp (most devs hold equity). I'm 43 and everyone is nearly 10 years older than me. No one has ever been laid off, companies fired FTEs and kept all our guys during covid panic, and every one of our clients will take everyone from our group that they can afford or we will let them have (the consultants get to choose clients). The amount of money they happily pay for us is crazy. W…

How would a high performing 40 year old software developer find a company like this?

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#353

Post by pjmlp »

Tarucho wrote: post #351
pjmlp wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About the same age as the one you are replying to, usually the best way to work around that is consulting, where you are expected to be business analyst, architect, devops and coder in one package. Granted, not everyone enjoys doing it, and it comes with lots of politics as baggage as well.

what do you mean by consulting? going through agencies? freelancing?

All of the above, it depends which one is better on your region.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#354

Post by ywei3410 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #348
ywei3410 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the original comment has specifically talked about the quality of the experience is important rather than just the quantity. > I worked with someone my age who only strong skills are a large enterprise storage system. He is a dinosaur and his future is limited.

They said you wouldn't find some combinations qualities in younger people at all . > You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer

I took the gist of the original post as saying they didn't agree with the original article and didn't think age was the defining factor of employment problems at 40. That, by developing and demonstrating relevant skills they hadn't found there to be any problems.

I took the quote as meaning that certain skills take time to master and it's impossible (which I took to be hyperbole) someone with less time would be able to master /all/ of the them; reinforcing their first point about how someone who is older should find it easier to find employment.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#355

Post by [deleted] »

brandall10 wrote: post #136
jasode wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done [...] Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, The blog post isn't about self-reported cognitive ability getting stronger (or not declining). It's about the job marketplace . Maybe it's instructive to compare/contrast different professional careers that depend on mental abilities and how age affects marketability: - computer programming :…

As mentioned elsewhere in the this chat, I'm a 45 yo principal engineer at my current company who has seen nothing but an increase in attention from recruiters since turning 40. I'm also directly involved in hiring for my team, having helped add 15 members over the last year, working directly w/ the director to review all resumes, handling maybe 30% of the screens, and usually the veto vote. We've interviewed a numbe…

[deleted]

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#356

Post by Tarucho »

brandall10 wrote: post #136
jasode wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done [...] Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, The blog post isn't about self-reported cognitive ability getting stronger (or not declining). It's about the job marketplace . Maybe it's instructive to compare/contrast different professional careers that depend on mental abilities and how age affects marketability: - computer programming :…

As mentioned elsewhere in the this chat, I'm a 45 yo principal engineer at my current company who has seen nothing but an increase in attention from recruiters since turning 40. I'm also directly involved in hiring for my team, having helped add 15 members over the last year, working directly w/ the director to review all resumes, handling maybe 30% of the screens, and usually the veto vote. We've interviewed a numbe…

Why do you think they have a pessimistic attitude?

I´ll use myself as an example.

I started coding professionally at 23 (I´m 43). For years I pushed myself to be the best coder I could. At 35 I got laid-off. After that I just got sucky jobs were I´m treated like they have me there as a favor (and I work with the latest, and I´m, even with the pessimism, a top performer).

A coworker of mine that thought that coding was a losers job, coded for some months and went to work as a B.A and later as a PM, nowadays is an engineering manager which earns way more than me and is treated way way better. His whole programming experience is an 8-month part time stint with Winforms. And sadly he is not the exception...

In most places devs are being had.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#357

Post by karmakaze »

jasode wrote: post #73
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

>At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done [...] Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, The blog post isn't about self-reported cognitive ability getting stronger (or not declining). It's about the job marketplace . Maybe it's instructive to compare/contrast different professional careers that depend on mental abilities and how age affects marketability: - computer programming :…

- computer programming : oft-reported industry bias against age 40+ and active recruitment (especially by software companies) for 20-somethings.

I think this is rational. 20-somethings have the least to unlearn, so you can get them to do things your way instead of the unique independent ways an experienced person would.

Secondly, 20-somethings are much more easily abused with long hours and intangible or possible future rewards.

20-somethings are also really fun to work with. Sponges for knowledge and so much energy.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#358

Post by Yoric »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #94
WriterGuy2021 wrote: post #42

I've seen a few people fall off the career ladder to their doom in different fields. I once was a member of a local hackerspace and the place was like the Island of Misfit Toys. So many interesting and talented people biding there time there in between jobs and struggling to get back on the ladder. Lots of horror stories -- a homeless mechanical engineer, a couch surfing old programmer, etc. I think most of us are qu…

I don't know. At some point, it's also a question of perception and attitude. Falling off the career ladder is in itself a strange idea. As I get older, it seems to me that the concept has little actual reality. Few people have linear career nowadays. At some point, things tend to take a turn for the unexpected. It can be failing to reach the position you were aiming for or suddenly finding yourself unemployed. It ca…

> Falling off the career ladder is in itself a strange idea. As I get older, it seems to me that the concept has little actual reality. Few people have linear career nowadays.

I basically fell of the career ladder early in my previous career as an Academic. Not as bad as falling off in the private sector, as I remained employed, but I picked the wrong job twice, had a little bad luck and became stuck in a crappy position, unable to move forward, unable to change university, and of course in permanent burnout.

I got away by joining a start-up and this relaunched my career, quite successfully, on a very different track. Not everybody has that opportunity, though.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#359

Post by ahaferburg »

cameronh90 wrote: post #197
mooreds wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two options: * Ask why they keep coming? Maybe you aren't understanding their question, they want to build the relationship, or it's a really risky operation and they don't want to undertake it alone. This might be worth digging into. * Write the answer down to the questions (wiki, internal doc, whatever). When they ask, point them to what you've written down. Will still take some time and interrupt you, but hopefull…

Who reads though? We had a build prerequisite check that output "error: package xxx is out of date, run sudo apt upgrade - see wiki.local/XXX for more details" They still copied the error to me and asked what to do. I said follow the instructions in the message. They said cool thanks and did so.

The problem is not reading, it's trust in the information. You telling them that the information is up-to-date and valid and useful is the reason why they read it.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#360

Post by stooliepidgin »

ozim wrote: post #346
stooliepidgin wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ageism is real. It's not some sour grapes of under-performers who let their skills decline, or move or think at a dotard pace. It's essentially "We don't want anyone old because old = bad, new = good."

I think it is a lot about under-performers that want to hang onto their "years of experience" as a selling point and being angry that there is not much of a market for "years of experience" only. Maybe they were not under-performers 10-15 or 20 years ago, but if someone gives 20 pages of resume and most of it happened in 90's I would not be interested. Because it is quite easy to see such person is hanging onto his p…

This is also true. Definitely can't slack off on the couch with a hand in their pants. Even someone with little experience can become perpetually stuck starting at the beginning of their career in low performance if they don't push themselves towards excellence. Slacking off at any point leads to a downward spiral of decay.
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