~ "Imagine that one could give you a copy of all of their knowledge. If you do not choose to apply and learn on your own, you can never."
It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated
81–90 of 229 posts
Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hired someone well educated from a Top Ivy League university but they had no motivation whatsoever. I tried my best, gave them everything they wanted (money, work style, tools, training) but they just wouldn't want to be motivated and we failed collectively. They were very smart otherwise and definitely could learn the skills. When I am hiring, for me the biggest things are motivation, curiosity and caring for your…
> I meet a lot of candidates who have no idea why they applied, what they want in life for themselves but are just randoming sending their Resume hoping it sticks. Yeah, well, while I'm working on that I still need to put food on the table, so I'll apologize ahead of time for faking like I give a rats ass about a career long enough to get through the interview process.
Gotta jump through the hoops- technical and social
Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated
#83Alternative take: in the hiring process education is often used as a proxy for motivation, when actually it only proves that once upon a time someone was motivated long enough to get educated, but it doesn't actually say anything about their present state in terms of motivation. A 'Do-er' is at least at present motivated, and educating them will get them to the desired combination of education+motivation in the prese…
This only applies to entry level jobs for new grads. What else do they have to go off of? After 5-10 years they don't care about your formal education.
I don't think Harvard Business School is a name that fades away until you will it to.
Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hired someone well educated from a Top Ivy League university but they had no motivation whatsoever. I tried my best, gave them everything they wanted (money, work style, tools, training) but they just wouldn't want to be motivated and we failed collectively. They were very smart otherwise and definitely could learn the skills. When I am hiring, for me the biggest things are motivation, curiosity and caring for your…
> I meet a lot of candidates who have no idea why they applied, what they want in life for themselves but are just randoming sending their Resume hoping it sticks. Yeah, well, while I'm working on that I still need to put food on the table, so I'll apologize ahead of time for faking like I give a rats ass about a career long enough to get through the interview process.
Exactly this! I cannot believe someone is naïve enough to think total strangers will start caring about some company's progress, profits and reputation just because they are being paid minimum wage.
Sorry, literally 99% of people who are seen as "do-ers" or motivated are only putting up a show to be hired and to keep their jobs. Being hungry and homeless is a great motivator. None is genuinely excited about your business as much as you are, and if you require them to be, then pay them a CEO salary.
Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated
#85Alternative take: in the hiring process education is often used as a proxy for motivation, when actually it only proves that once upon a time someone was motivated long enough to get educated, but it doesn't actually say anything about their present state in terms of motivation. A 'Do-er' is at least at present motivated, and educating them will get them to the desired combination of education+motivation in the prese…
I hired someone well educated from a Top Ivy League university but they had no motivation whatsoever. I tried my best, gave them everything they wanted (money, work style, tools, training) but they just wouldn't want to be motivated and we failed collectively. They were very smart otherwise and definitely could learn the skills. When I am hiring, for me the biggest things are motivation, curiosity and caring for your…
Everyone knows why they applied, but for the benefit of employers, we have created a society in which it is not acceptable to say "I'm only here for the money, I literally do not care about your company."
Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated
#86I have a lot of respect for Carmack but I wish he wouldn't tweet things like this. It just feeds into confirmation bias. You could say the same thing about the work ethic of immigrants... well yes, it's self selecting. Just like the autodidacts who make careers without formal education. For the vast majority of us, an education has huge benefits. And for the hard sciences and math, it's generally just too hard to "do…
It's always odd when people with at least a somewhat scientific world view decide they can draw broad conclusions from their extremely limited experience, especially when they start throwing around hopelessly vague, impossible to measure terms like "do-er".
It's great to share your personal experience, that's not worthless, but you gotta understand and accept the limitations of that.
Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated
#87The problem with this phrasing is it implies that motivation is an inherent aspect of individuals. Nobody is a do-er. Motivation is impacted by a variety of factors.
I think it's clear that a "do-er" is someone who is more motivated, relatively speaking.
Surely you can grant some people are consistently motivated than some others.
Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated
#88[deleted]
Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated
#89This completely ignores the why somebody is unmotivated.
I remember being beat down very early in my career. I took advanced math classes, could build compilers, loved embedded device work, wanted to work on more advanced things (operating system level, backend, devices, etc). The only people that would even talk to me were people that wanted web pages built. All because I wasn't fortunate enough to go to a big name school or any education beyond a BS.
Often the only motivation I had at that point was to not starve. But after working for an abusive boss and 2.5 bad companies. I was burned out, used up, and left with nearly zero motivation.
Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated
#90This is why I don't like when bigco's interview process discounts candidates' open source contributions; it's the only proof of someone being a "do-er!" As an example, it's pretty hard to fake that you're a top contributor to an open source project.
Open source contributions aren't discounted, they are treated just like any other development experience you have. A multi year effort at a job receives a few seconds worth of attention as they read the few lines you put in your resume and helps you get hired at higher levels. Open source gets similar levels of attention per level of effort expended by you, if it is a hobby project you spent a few hundred hours on then that is as relevant as a job you stayed a month at, ie not relevant at all unless the project is successful and headed by you.