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Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

reuters.com

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Re: Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

#131

Post by hagbard_c »

AdamHominem wrote: post #71
don-code wrote: post #30

I'm actually quite thrilled that end users found a way to communicate in spite of "the everyday solution" being down. That gives me some hope that smaller vendors do stand a chance against incumbents, even in Facebook's space.

I'm not particularly thrilled, given Telegram is based in the United Arab Emirates, its client-server encryption is almost purposefully garbage (they basically rolled their own TLS, and predictably researchers keep finding vulnerabilities in "MTProto"), they don't enable e2ee chats by default, and they don't e2ee group chats at all. Do. Not. Use. Telegram.

Handwavy rants about shoddy cryptography tend to be just that, handwavy. Repeating that Telegram does not enable end-to-end encryption by default does not make it more of a reason not to use Telegram. Here's what you can do to live comfortably on the net, having conversations with the world and its dog while still being able to plot the overthrow of the government without inviting prying eyes: use Telegram for the former, use your private XMPP server with OMEMO for the latter. There, done, problem solved. No need for angry righteous rants about MTProto or the Emirates - and why exactly would that be the reason not to use Telegram by the way, would it have been less of an issue had they been located in Jakarta or Ouagadougou or Silly Valley - and all the bragging rights of using trusted cryptography for your local knitting club meetings where you plan to overthrow the government.

Source: this is what I do, except for the knitting. Telegram for talking to the family, XMPP standby on the server-under-the-stairs for when the going gets tough, with Conversation (which supports OMEMO) installed on target devices.

Re: Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

#132

Post by SergeAx »

prirai wrote: post #127
SergeAx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those 70m are mostly Whatsapp users, so...)

They went back as well.Nothing really matters to them.

I mean, they don't mind giving out their phone numbers, and contact lists as well.

Re: Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

#133

Post by anaganisk »

AdamHominem wrote: post #80
notRobot wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that telegram chats are not e2e encrypted by default.

And that it uses a proprietary encryption protocol, "MTProto", which has been repeatedly found to have vulnerabilities, like every other self-made encryption scheme. Now add in the fact that it's a UAE company...

As if we are supposed to trust US or any other countries. Lol

Re: Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

#134

Post by bellyfullofbac »

14u2c wrote: post #121
tasogare wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is asking phone number to use, I don't see how this is good for sensitive communication (since metadata alone are often very informative).

Exactly. I have found the phone number requirement idiotic from day one. I recognize the decision was made as a trade off between usability and security (enabling discovering friends via phone etc), but they seem unwilling to admit that this does compromise security.

I've thought about a phone-numberless messaging app, but then it'd be full of spammers.

Re: Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

#135

Post by 14u2c »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #134
14u2c wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I have found the phone number requirement idiotic from day one. I recognize the decision was made as a trade off between usability and security (enabling discovering friends via phone etc), but they seem unwilling to admit that this does compromise security.

I've thought about a phone-numberless messaging app, but then it'd be full of spammers.

Is that really a problem though? Most people would just add their friends via username and bypass the whole user discovery process. Discord has demonstrated that this works perfectly fine, even with anonymous accounts not tied to emails.

Re: Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

#136

Post by pkulak »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #134
14u2c wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I have found the phone number requirement idiotic from day one. I recognize the decision was made as a trade off between usability and security (enabling discovering friends via phone etc), but they seem unwilling to admit that this does compromise security.

I've thought about a phone-numberless messaging app, but then it'd be full of spammers.

Matrix seems to be doing just fine.

Re: Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

#137

Post by pkulak »

hagbard_c wrote: post #131
AdamHominem wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not particularly thrilled, given Telegram is based in the United Arab Emirates, its client-server encryption is almost purposefully garbage (they basically rolled their own TLS, and predictably researchers keep finding vulnerabilities in "MTProto"), they don't enable e2ee chats by default, and they don't e2ee group chats at all. Do. Not. Use. Telegram.

Handwavy rants about shoddy cryptography tend to be just that, handwavy. Repeating that Telegram does not enable end-to-end encryption by default does not make it more of a reason not to use Telegram. Here's what you can do to live comfortably on the net, having conversations with the world and its dog while still being able to plot the overthrow of the government without inviting prying eyes: use Telegram for the fo…

To quote a popular movie from my youth; I dunno, man; that sounds like a lot of work.

I don't want to have to decide if every message I send is sensitive or not, then if it is, swap to a totally different app. Even worse: convincing friends and family to do the same!

Re: Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

#138

Post by outworlder »

ggregoire wrote: post #86

Makes me wonder if people even remember that SMS is a thing. Seems to me like the most obvious solution when your communication app is temporarily unavailable. Instead of the annoying process to look for an alternative app, download it, sign in, add contacts… just for a few hours. Or people thought Whatsapp & Messenger were gone forever and they were looking for a long term replacement?

In many countries, SMS is terribly expensive. This is one of the reasons Whatsapp exploded. The other being that it ran in essentially all possible platforms, even on phones that were not "smart".

Re: Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

#139

Post by pkulak »

farmerstan wrote: post #82

Is telegram better than signal? I vaguely remember hearing about Telegram having nefarious roots so I never investigated further.

I don't think so, personally. Everyone on here is going off on how great of a UI experience Telegram is, so I just downloaded it and signed in to my old account. Seems fine. No complaints. But Signal has message reactions and E2E at all times. What are people fawning over Telegram for?

I guess a benefit is that Telegram store messages on the server, so if you sign in with a new device you get all your messages, not just the new ones. But that's why I use Matrix now; security of Signal with the UI features of Telegram.

Re: Telegram founder says over 70M new users joined during Facebook outage

#140

Post by vinay427 »

prirai wrote: post #125
vinay427 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they competitors? As far as I can tell, Telegram focuses on non-E2EE messaging and is more of an alternative to Facebook Messenger, Google Talk, etc. for non-private messaging. That's fine, but its support for E2EE is incredibly limited compared to Signal (or even WhatsApp), which includes multi-device support, a fairly-functional encrypted backup method especially in the case of Signal, etc.

Multi device yes. The unlimited member functionality and seemless sync without having the phone turned on are the biggest pros. Also, in e2e the contents aren't revealed in notifications.

Assuming I'm interpreting your comment correctly, I'm not sure I understand. Telegram doesn't have the option to backup and restore E2EE chats, let alone sync between devices, unlike Signal and (beta) WhatsApp. It very much feels like an afterthought in Telegram with the focus remaining on usability, compared to the often privacy-first approach of Signal which can come at the cost of end-user functionality.

https://tsf.telegram.org/manuals/e2ee-simple

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