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Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

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Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#521

Post by notacoward »

CountDrewku wrote: post #463
notacoward wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you don't like vaccines..." At first I thought that was a bit too facile, they have nothing to do with each other, but ... is that true? Other people using Facebook to spread hate and misinformation (including vaccine misinformation) does affect me. They affect who gets elected (or appointed) and what policies get enacted. We're already seeing real tangible effects at the state level, and with the 2022 elections…

Exactly how does it affect you if you're vaccinated?

What @heartbreak said, but also far more. Vaccines aren't 100% so the continuing circulation of the virus will cause some number of those to get sick. Then there are variants. Kids being sent home because someone else tested positive. Travel restrictions. The list goes on. None of this should be news to anybody who has actually been paying attention, and such a person better not be saying "do your own research" to anyone else.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#522

Post by betwixthewires »

Imagine unironically whistleblowing and stoking outrage that the censorship isn't enough.

It is bad that the company knew that Instagram is harmful to teenagers' mental health and still marketed to them anyway. But "Facebook doesn't do enough to stop the spread of misinformation" is the most ridiculous narrative on something like this I've ever heard, and honestly I'm not surprised such a narrative got a 60 minutes special. The problems I have with Facebook are the real problems, like how it is designed to get people addicted and steal their lives from them, how Instagram is designed to instill envy so as to maximize use. These are real problems, bad problems. "Facebook isn't doing enough to prevent vaccine hesitancy" is not on anyone's radar that seriously cares about the effect Facebook is having on our societies, the only people hammering on this narrative are misdirecting at best, working a propagandistic angle most likely.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#523

Post by smolder »

Tamrind7 wrote: post #330
farcebook wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One, most of the mainstream news has at least basic editorial processes in place that do a rudimentary check on truthiness. Facebook, along with some of the sketchier news outlets, are the opposite: they profit off (and optimize for) disinformation. Two, it's a matter of scale. Facebook reaches a far larger audience and has far more detail into their preferences and can nano-target personalized stories for them and c…

No one with a brain uses the terms "disinformation" or "misinformation".

What was the point of posting this? Surely it wasn't to convince anyone they don't have a brain.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#524

Post by Dracophoenix »

finfinfin wrote: post #515
Dracophoenix wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you defining "amplification"? Phones already operate by complex signal amplification over long distances. Why do you think burner phones are still prevalent for all manner of illicit activity? I don't think the phone company should be shut down because others can use it in a way that's considered devious. I don't think the phone company should play "morality police" either. I simply expect the phone company t…

Amplification not in the electrical signal amplification sense but rather in the sense of amplifying the message. Facebook is giving more visibility to content that it considers more engaging, even if that content leads to harmful outcomes (it’s own research proves that).

You were making a point regarding phone-operated sex trafficking. Your characterization of what the phone company should do was what I contended. While, I'm aware that this was made as a broader point regarding Facebook, amplifying a signal and amplifying a message isn't functionally different. Television is an example of where both are happening. Even Twitter and Tiktok engage in amplification every time there's some Tide-pod Challenge. I don't see why Facebook would have to be responsible for how people feel about themselves, what stunts bad actors pull.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#525

Post by [deleted] »

woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#526

Post by tsimionescu »

ayngg wrote: post #423
woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

One fairly common pattern seen is that companies develop in a nascent space where there were few rules and were therefore able to basically outrun regulation/ the law that moves very slowly. When that regulation eventually comes it ends up solidifying the monopolistic advantage by essentially creating a moat and closing the door on practices that helped create such growth in the first place. I think when stakes are t…

This argument is brought up a lot, but it seems the lack of regulation hadn't really stopped FB and Google from monopolizing their markets anyway (or, oligopolizing if we think they're in the same market).

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#527

Post by bestcoder69 »

betwixthewires wrote: post #522

Imagine unironically whistleblowing and stoking outrage that the censorship isn't enough. It is bad that the company knew that Instagram is harmful to teenagers' mental health and still marketed to them anyway. But "Facebook doesn't do enough to stop the spread of misinformation" is the most ridiculous narrative on something like this I've ever heard, and honestly I'm not surprised such a narrative got a 60 minutes s…

Anecdotally, all of the people I know who are addicted to FB (and they were before COVID) are also all anti-vax.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#528

Post by tsimionescu »

Pyramus wrote: post #434
_hyn3 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as "legal fraud". Fraud is always illegal.

In theory yes - in practice no. Legal/illegal is only a binary variable in theory. In practice it's things that are clearly white, clearly black and lots of grey in between. There are many concrete examples regarding accounting rules mentioned in the interview. The question is where does a court draw the line, and as parent rightly points out, sometimes code/case law changes after the fact.

I think the parent is making a point about definitions - that the word fraud can only refer to illegal actions by definition. I think this is an overly literal interpretation of language' though.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#529

Post by betwixthewires »

bestcoder69 wrote: post #527
betwixthewires wrote: post #522

Imagine unironically whistleblowing and stoking outrage that the censorship isn't enough. It is bad that the company knew that Instagram is harmful to teenagers' mental health and still marketed to them anyway. But "Facebook doesn't do enough to stop the spread of misinformation" is the most ridiculous narrative on something like this I've ever heard, and honestly I'm not surprised such a narrative got a 60 minutes s…

Anecdotally, all of the people I know who are addicted to FB (and they were before COVID) are also all anti-vax.

For me it ranges. Some people are opposed to the covid vaccine mandate, some people don't want it for themselves, some people (I think only one or two) are anti vax types, some have it but don't think others should have to and some think you're evil if you disagree that everyone should have to. Precisely what information people internalize on Facebook isn't the common thread there, the common thread is that it consumes their social life and has a near monopoly on their information availability and therefore worldview. Facebook's problems go beyond what information is available on it.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#530

Post by tsimionescu »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #298
woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

Law is always lagging behind social norms, for many reasons. Because of that, I don't think laws can change the world, this is the opposite, laws are merely acknowledging the common rules of the majority. Technology also change the world and we need time to figure out new rules to adapt, in the case of Facebook and other giants, some changes are clearly in need, at least it seems to be a growing consensus.

Laws can absolutely change the world (at least if we take the world to mean one country). Look at de-segregation. It's obviously that the world was segregated before the de-segregation laws were passed. Of course, the laws were passed because there was ample enough support for them, but that doesn't mean that the laws only aknowledged an existing state of affairs. Even more so, the laws themselves helped accelerate the perception of segregation as evil among the majority of the population, whereas before it was just a regular part of life to many (many on the good part of the segregated world, of course).
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