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It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

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Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#31
post #7

It is a lot easier to find an educated person than a person whose motivation lasts long enough to make up for the education though.

Part of the problem finding these people is they probably aren't looking to work for you. They know their resume isn't going to pass your assumptions. So instead of applying to jobs they're never be considered for they're out trying to do something instead.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#32
If we assume doers as being goal-oriented, then I can see it being easier to educate them in ways to help them get closer to their goals faster and more efficiently. On the other hand, someone who doesn't really care about the goal, isn't going to care as much about getting there sooner or in a better fashion.

That said, I've found myself in both camps on various projects. When you're working on something where the end result is really exciting, it makes a huge difference on you and your team. It's exhilarating. On the flip side, projects were you don't care about the end result, are really brutal to work through. You just work for the paycheck. Any sort of educating about how to do things better feels particularly pointless.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#33
Alternative take: in the hiring process education is often used as a proxy for motivation, when actually it only proves that once upon a time someone was motivated long enough to get educated, but it doesn't actually say anything about their present state in terms of motivation.

A 'Do-er' is at least at present motivated, and educating them will get them to the desired combination of education+motivation in the present, even if that education is going to be by necessity a very narrow one (typically: job specific).

Being hungry for money and creature comforts also tends to be conflated with being motivated ('ambitious'), but it doesn't really align well because once financial success (for some very modest success) is attained the motivation will vanish. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it tends to confuse people who were not aware of the driving power being the outwardly visible motivation.

The movie 'Rush' has a nice bit about that, James Hunt just wants to be WDC, once. He doesn't care about anything past that point because it will give him what he wants. But until he's got it he will be super motivated.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#34

Doing involves a lot of implicit knowledge that reading frequently fails to cover. There's a density of information in doing that reading sometimes lacks. There are good points and bad points to that.

I would say there is no way to 100% cover with reading what you need to learn on the job. Also there is no way to cover some concepts with 100% on the job training (much harder to make a HS grad a petroleum engineer by just throwing them on a platform in the gulf without any formal education).

You have to have some implicit knowledge of how things work in order first...but that doesn't always come from formal education.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#35
post #30

The problem with this phrasing is it implies that motivation is an inherent aspect of individuals. Nobody is a do-er. Motivation is impacted by a variety of factors.

Agreed, and key to both job negotiations and many other situations is to find out what motivates the other party to do as they do, even if it seems to be aligned with your own interests, if the motivation is a different one then that may spell trouble down the road.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#37
post #30

The problem with this phrasing is it implies that motivation is an inherent aspect of individuals. Nobody is a do-er. Motivation is impacted by a variety of factors.

While you're right that motivation isn't purely an inherent trait of the individual, it is certainly a factor. The old nature vs nurture (or circumstance) debate. The answer is usually a mix of both.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#38

Doing involves a lot of implicit knowledge that reading frequently fails to cover. There's a density of information in doing that reading sometimes lacks. There are good points and bad points to that.

I would say there is no way to 100% cover with reading what you need to learn on the job. Also there is no way to cover some concepts with 100% on the job training (much harder to make a HS grad a petroleum engineer by just throwing them on a platform in the gulf without any formal education). You have to have some implicit knowledge of how things work in order first...but that doesn't always come from formal educati…

The challenges are compounded when two people come from very different experiences. The same words mean different things to them and then instead of fostering the transfer of knowledge, "the words get in the way."

I suspect this is a root cause of a lot of social and political friction. Doing or showing is sometimes the only hope of getting past that.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#39

Alternative take: in the hiring process education is often used as a proxy for motivation, when actually it only proves that once upon a time someone was motivated long enough to get educated, but it doesn't actually say anything about their present state in terms of motivation. A 'Do-er' is at least at present motivated, and educating them will get them to the desired combination of education+motivation in the prese…

>but it doesn't actually say anything about their present state in terms of motivation

If you take the set of all applicants with education and the set of all applicants without, would you claim there is no difference in the distributions of 'do-er'-ness?

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#40
Also easier to convince someone ignorant of the problem domain that they have an adequate understanding of the problem domain, than to convince someone with an comprehensive understanding of the problem domain that the problem is solvable and worth investing effort into.
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