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Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

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Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#491

Post by ethbr0 »

parineum wrote: post #419
asdff wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, do you not wear seatbelts too? Opt for asbestos insulation since its better than anything on the market today? Plumb your home with lead since its more durable and flexible? Use leaded gas because its better for your older engine? The state acts on the collective when the public is not making good decisions for themselves and causing net harm onto themselves, usually with the public paying the price. Sometim…

> Curious, do you not wear seatbelts too? I wear my seatbelt, I don't smoke, I don't drink and I'm vaccinated. Everyone keeps talking about these "negative externalities" without being specific. Why not just make the societal harm illegal and let people hurt themselves without buying permission from the government?

Because making it illegal to accidentally kill someone with your car while intoxicated doesn't solve the problem.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#492

Post by beepbooptheory »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #480
chmsky00 wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how he’d speak of a supposedly even better educated society stealing the future of the next due to circular validation of our waste filled industrialism.

Given that most Greeks of that era believed they lived after the decline of a golden age, I suspect he might be be more understanding than most people today.

In fact, Plato himself lived through a ruthless and bloody revolution that killed his friends and ended in the reign of the 14 tyrants!

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#493

Post by hunterb123 »

prancer_or_vix wrote: post #417
hunterb123 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is tobacco itself is a carcinogen, you cannot make a cig not cause cancer because it needs to burn tobacco at least. A social media website does not need doom scrolling or private algorithms for the feed, you can change how it works instead of adding a useless banner.

2 questions: 1) What would you expect be implemented to reduce/eradicate doom scrolling? 2) What would making the algorithm public do for us? I'm not an ML engineer, but presumably their algorithm isn't just an algebraic equation where x is how toxic the post is and y is how inflammatory it is and y is the number of kids who will think harder about suicide because of the post. Maybe I'm just super naive and that _is_…

I don't want them to do anything regarding doom scrolling, it was just an example and came from another user.

I do want them to publish their algorithms and moderation logs so we have insight on how they are serving and moderating content.

I don't care about organic user content, I do care if FB is pulling the strings to make it either more salacious or being biased in one way or another.

I also care if they are banning certain users or content but not others.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#494

Post by oarabbus_ »

parineum wrote: post #476
oarabbus_ wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why not outlaw the societal harm instead? Weren't you just saying how you don't want the state legislating what you put in your body and mind? That's why.

I want the state to not outlaw hurting myself when it doesn't hurt others. The state's role is to prevent individuals from hurting others.

Unfortunately it's not so simple. An individual's smoking and alcohol use can and does harm others, and the state levies excise taxes for that reason.

Another example is driving a car, which results in thousands of fatalities and many more injuries daily. Not to mention environmental impacts which affect others. The state chooses to require drivers to have insurance and their cars to pass smog tests, rather than outlawing driving.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#495

Post by kreeben »

hatenberg wrote: post #369
alistairSH wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you want to be done exactly? Public algorithms, or at least some 3rd party review. Ban infinite-scroll on social media platforms. Require feeds to be configurable (users can set to "newest first" or "top picks" or whatever else). I'm sure I could come up with more, that's just off the top of my head.

I’m infinitely scrolling hacker news comments right now. You think adding a next page button is gonna change anything?

FB's research shows that, yes, any friction between you and the next post/article/item will decrease the likelihood that you see it.

A click == friction.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#496

Post by bobthepanda »

coolspot wrote: post #304
cratermoon wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it's possible to question whether or not any illegal behavior has been revealed doesn't mean that Facebook didn't cause – and is not causing – any harm doesn't mean there's no basis to Haugen's revelations. Rather, it means that under the current regulatory regime, there are no penalties for behavior harmful to consumers. That the only recourse is to file with the SEC alleging harm to the stockholders i…

IMO Twitter and Reddit cause more mental harm than all FB properties combined.

we can walk and chew gum. Looking at one doesn't preclude looking at the other.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#497

Post by htrp »

zestyping wrote: post #288
kentonv wrote: post #195

I highly recommend watching the Senate hearing from today, and I'm a person who normally can't stand these things. This was totally different from any other hearing I've seen -- little grandstanding, no partisan bickering, no evading of questions. Most of the Senators seemed genuinely interested in what Frances had to say, and she gave meaningful insights backed by real data. A lot of what she's saying is stuff that…

Strongly agree. She is doing this in a way that no one has really done (certainly not at this level of skill) before: explaining the systemic issues, giving clear and direct answers, keeping the conflict away from the personal, and most of all delivering criticism with empathy and compassion for all involved.

Thats future Senator Francds Haugen to you

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#498

Post by munk-a »

chmsky00 wrote: post #454
sarkron wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plato put it like this in his "Laws": “Laws are made to instruct the good, and in the hope that there may be no need of them; also to control the bad, whose hardness of heart will not be hindered from crime.”

I wonder how he’d speak of a supposedly even better educated society stealing the future of the next due to circular validation of our waste filled industrialism.

Plato at the Googleplex might be of interest to you - it's got its rough points but it brings a lot of his philosophy forward to be more relatable.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#499

Post by baby »

keewee7 wrote: post #193
ozzythecat wrote: post #141

I don’t personally use FB and don’t have a very favorable view of their products. I would, however, like to see the same level scrutiny applied to the general American media, especially the news media. FB has come in and started eating their lunch. There’s a deeper problem here, and it feels more like the powers that he want to take down FB. I’m not denying any allegation made against FB, but why is it that Fox News,…

One thing that makes Facebook distinct from other big Internet companies is that they allow far-right speech on their platform. That is probably why the Democrats and liberal media are targeting Facebook but not twitter, YouTube, reddit, Snap, TikTok etc.

Have you read the comments on youtube?

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#500

Post by iamstupidsimple »

prancer_or_vix wrote: post #417
hunterb123 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is tobacco itself is a carcinogen, you cannot make a cig not cause cancer because it needs to burn tobacco at least. A social media website does not need doom scrolling or private algorithms for the feed, you can change how it works instead of adding a useless banner.

2 questions: 1) What would you expect be implemented to reduce/eradicate doom scrolling? 2) What would making the algorithm public do for us? I'm not an ML engineer, but presumably their algorithm isn't just an algebraic equation where x is how toxic the post is and y is how inflammatory it is and y is the number of kids who will think harder about suicide because of the post. Maybe I'm just super naive and that _is_…

The input to these algorithms are usually human understandable and quantifiable signals like likes, text sentiment, maybe engagement history -- and the output is probably a score than can be ranked. Ultimately though even if the algorithm is a black box (entirely possible it's not ML based!) we can still evaluate it in a lab environment.

Some of the signals might be generated by ML also, like photo labels, but ultimately these things are very understandable if you have the model and data.

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