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Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

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Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#481

Post by satellite2 »

josephg wrote: post #472
satellite2 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the cookie jar an alegory of the commons? And as such shouldn't it be forbiden to shit in the cookie jar? I had the impression that it was how the story ended when we talked about cookies, but maybe I didn't get the memo.

The point is that being forbidden and being illegal are different ideas. It’s bad for society to codify too much behaviour in law. Knowing the law is no substitute for knowing the difference between right and wrong. Regulating Facebook is a great example. Congress could easily react to facebook’s indiscretions by passing new laws here which stifle innovation.

I think I got that part. I was referring to the book the tragedy of the commons (very interesting small book that I recommend) which basically says that when you have N users of some common, even if game theory says that it's in their best individual best interest to protect the common as it is the strategy that maximise satisfaction, if N becomes large enough, someone will start damageing it and soon everyone will do the same. So the tragedy is that you actually have to enforce the behaviour that's in everyone's best interest as a law.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#482

Post by kjgkjhfkjf »

I'm not outraged or surprised by the revelations. Everyone knows there is toxicity on Facebook and other social media products.

Social media is sometimes toxic because people are sometimes toxic. Moreover, people are drawn to toxicity because it is grotesquely fascinating. This is also the case for movies, video games, and other media; much of it is anti-social and misleading.

Condemning Facebook for the toxicity of some of its users is like condemning the manufacturers of mirrors because you don't like what you see in them. If you are appalled by society's propensity for producing and consuming toxicity, then consider directing your attention to shortcomings of our education and healthcare systems rather than a company that is simply providing a useful service to its users and value to its stockholders.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#483

Post by jimbob45 »

_hyn3 wrote: post #360
dantheman wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standard oil reduces the cost of oil, delighted customers, and had already a massive decline in market share by the time the antitrust stuff happened. It was driven by people who couldn't compete.

As someone who has studied this fairly extensively, I believe this comment to be factually correct. It also didn't hurt Rockefeller in the slightest. To the contrary, he actually became far wealthier post-breakup, possibly because all former business units became more efficient in the light of open competition. Many of them live on today, such as Texaco, Chevron, and Mobil. https://historyincharts.com/the-legacy-of-t…

>possibly because all former business units became more efficient in the light of open competition.

Then it sounds like it did work in the eyes of the people who wanted more efficient corporations (and thus potential savings to be passed down to them).

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#485

Post by chasd00 »

freeopinion wrote: post #442
finfinfin wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like you are willfully ignoring Facebook’s own findings. They know that polarizing content is more engaging yet harmful… and they choose to amplify it anyway. The same old argument that it’s hard therefore let’s not do anything is not applicable. Facebook is not a neutral platform that just shows all posts from your friends in a chronological order. They are actively manipulating the stream and are fully respon…

> Facebook [clipped] are fully responsible for what you consume. I'm not sure how deeply you hold this belief, but I am concerned to see so many people push all blame from their own actions. While it may be true that Facebook is largely responsible for what is consumed * on Facebook *, individuals are largely responsible for consuming Facebook.

this is true and if you're going to put Facebook in the spotlight you're going to have to put a light on everyone else. The entire computer gaming industry is one big dopamine cartel. If the facebook addiction is such a big deal then it's a little ironic gaming hasn't been completely dismantled.

//edit: honestly i think politics are a little at play here. Facebook (these days) is used heavily by an older more conservative crowd and i think it's irritating to the other side

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#486

Post by titzer »

akudha wrote: post #220
woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

That is the problem of following the absolute minimum standards in life - we (the society as a whole) have accepted that as long as businesses follow the law, its all good. We've accepted that the sole purpose of businesses is to make money within the bounds of the law. While this makes sense logically, it isn't good for anyone in the long run, practically. Also remember that all kinds of unfair laws can be passed, i…

> the sole purpose of businesses is to make money within the bounds of the law.

It's worse than that. Businesses constantly make risk/reward/punishment tradeoffs and will flout the law according to their estimation of the risk of being caught and paying fines. There are precious few illegal behaviors that bubble up to criminal charges for executives, so the risk is quantifiable in dollar amounts.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#487

Post by oort-cloud9 »

woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

Standard oil would not have been able to consolidate the oil industry without the help of the government.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#488

Post by alistairSH »

hatenberg wrote: post #369
alistairSH wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you want to be done exactly? Public algorithms, or at least some 3rd party review. Ban infinite-scroll on social media platforms. Require feeds to be configurable (users can set to "newest first" or "top picks" or whatever else). I'm sure I could come up with more, that's just off the top of my head.

I’m infinitely scrolling hacker news comments right now. You think adding a next page button is gonna change anything?

Have you ever watched a teenager (or addicted adult) scroll thought their IG feed? It's disturbing. They just scroll and scroll and scroll waiting for the tiny little dopamine hits. I don't know if a "Next" button fixes it completely, but it almost has to be better, even if only marginally so.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#489

Post by alistairSH »

idiotsecant wrote: post #215
alistairSH wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you want to be done exactly? Public algorithms, or at least some 3rd party review. Ban infinite-scroll on social media platforms. Require feeds to be configurable (users can set to "newest first" or "top picks" or whatever else). I'm sure I could come up with more, that's just off the top of my head.

These seem like awkward things to encode into law in a durable way. Laws are long-term blunt instruments, banning something like infinite scroll will have all kinds of unintended consequences.

That's true - these things might be better implemented as regulations out of the Executive branch - but that would still require legislation authorizing somebody to implement the regulations.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#490

Post by rmahan »

freeopinion wrote: post #442
finfinfin wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like you are willfully ignoring Facebook’s own findings. They know that polarizing content is more engaging yet harmful… and they choose to amplify it anyway. The same old argument that it’s hard therefore let’s not do anything is not applicable. Facebook is not a neutral platform that just shows all posts from your friends in a chronological order. They are actively manipulating the stream and are fully respon…

> Facebook [clipped] are fully responsible for what you consume. I'm not sure how deeply you hold this belief, but I am concerned to see so many people push all blame from their own actions. While it may be true that Facebook is largely responsible for what is consumed * on Facebook *, individuals are largely responsible for consuming Facebook.

I think they fall into more responsibility here because they’ve also designed it to be addictive. If Facebook was easier to quit, I’d hold individuals more accountable.
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