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Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

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591–600 of 719 posts

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#591
post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservatives want to increase the power of those government institutions that are the least accountable, and are most connected to the use of violence: the police and the military. They want to reduce the power of any government institutions that would serve to provide public accountability to other power centers in US society, mainly corporations and the wealthy. Corporations and the wealthy need police: to protect…

> Conservatives want to increase the power of those government institutions that are the least accountable, and are most connected to the use of violence: the police and the military. That's just not true. Conservatives want to balance the need for police to enforce the law with the risk that the police acquire too much power. Also, conservatives recognize far more correctly than the left that we need military streng…

I'll skip over the theoretical stuff, and just skip to talking about the Democrats (whomst I hate).

With Biden, you need to watch the hands, not the mouth. Biden only proposes stuff that the left likes when he knows it won't pass — and he has a couple of thumbs on the scale (Manchin and Synema) to ensure that they don't. It's a matter of optics. On the eviction moratorium, for example, Biden knew he'd be overruled, and he knows that the Senate won't allow any extension by legislation to pass; all he actually did was get the actual leftists to stop camping out on the capitol steps. The Biden administration isn't practically governing to the right of the Obama administration, which was itself right wing. Look at the notable accomplishments of the Obama administration: a massive bail-out to investment banks, blocking socialized health care while enforcing/guaranteeing the revenue streams of private insurance companies, and maintaining the Global War On Terror, in part by ramping up the drone war.

On the other hand, if you consider health mandates authoritarian...I don't know that we have any common ground for speaking. If public health isn't a legitimate government concern, then probably nothing is.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#592
post #160

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Not if you mean "as the kids say". Sorry.

If you're involved in far-left movements on twitch and elsewhere, the kids definitely do say this and use liberal synonymously with centrist / to the right of the far left

And they're not wrong, either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_effect

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#593
post #121
post #31

To me this is a fake story being promoted as a way to further a political narrative. Nothing the whistleblower has revealed is shocking or previously unknown. Yes facebook tweaks an algorithm on your news feed to drive engagement and make money. Yes facebook allows some content that some would consider not to align with mainstream US narratives. My two cents this is an attempt to force facebook to kowtow to the US an…

> Nothing the whistleblower has revealed is shocking or previously unknown. Yes facebook tweaks an algorithm on your news feed to drive engagement and make money. Can you provide a citation here? People have suspected these things externally. Facebook has always denied. The news here is that an insider has provided documentation that Facebook knew. And I'm not talking strictly about the algorithm, but the harm to tee…

My partner and I rolled our eyes at the 'harm to teenagers' bits when we heard NPR talking about it forever. How can anyone be surprised at this? Before instagram everyone bitched about teen-magazines harming teens, is this really surprising or that different? And IIRC the % was incredibly small. It's not like Instagram is leading teenagers off a cliff, it's unhealthy for teenagers who are already unhealthy. SHOCKER!

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#594

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Conservative fear-mongering, recommending Ben Shapiro...am I really on HN?

Yeah, this is really common on this site.

I left /. over this shit; the prevalence of it on HN is beginning to become worrisome.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#595
post #520
post #458

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>Blaming Facebook for societies' problems is far too easy. People manage(d) to get into civil wars, genocides, etc. People die eventually anyway, why should we blame murderers? The obvious answer is that speeding up a negative result is still bad even if that result is eventually inevitable. > Domestic US political issues will not be resolved by making Facebook disappear (why does it not seem to have similar impact e…

It's not fixing facebook. No one was saying "fix facebook" when Barack Obama was praised for using it and it was part of his strategy to win. For example: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obama-digital-... The "facebook is bad" started happening when Trump won, imo. Essentially the establishment on both sides realized that it could also be used against them as much as for them. It feels similar to AM rad…

Facebook was much smaller during Obama's election wins. It also hadn't even moved off the chronological feed at the time he was first elected. Returning back to that type of feed with no boosting content for virality or engagement would do a lot to "fix Facebook".

Also it is worth noting that Obama's campaign was largely based off positive emotions like hope and change while Trumps was largely based off negative emotions like outrage and divisiveness. People are angry that Facebook is manipulating us into negative emotions. People would be less upset if Facebook was manipulating us into positive emotions. So yes, Trump did shine a light on the problems with Facebook but that isn't because of a left/right bias like you are stating.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#596

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It’s hard to find the proper analogy since the phenomenon is so new. On a legal basis, it was actually hard to build a case against the Mafia until racketeering laws were passed. It was difficult to prove that it was ‘organized’ crime before then (where before the criminals could say these are all unrelated events, and there is no larger organization, there is no boss, there are no lieutenants, you are imagining conn…

At least in case of the Nazis it was not so effective. The Nazis did not come to power by propaganda. In elections they did not exceed about 1/3 of the votes. The got to power by having another party voting the power to them. Afterwards they actually used plain old violence and economics to achieve their objectives (i.e. it paid to "come along").

Interesting to add that Hitler specifically used "cancel culture" techniques copied from the communist party in Germany at the time to dispatch those who were standing in the way of winning that power. Making the decision to "come along" the default. (Shirer, 1960)

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#597
post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systemic problems get worse the more you pull on the levers that are normally used to correct things. That's why they're called systemic problems. Good, intelligent people in various symbiotic systems can act wisely and with good intent and intelligence and still things get worse. To use a recent HN headline, it's a meta-stable catastrophe. In fact, the greater the attempts to correct, the worse it gets. Intuition fa…

I can scarcely find any powerful entity interested in opposing social media. It clearly expands the reach of American influence in the world, so the state must be happy. It’s good for advertising, so pretty much all businesses are happy too. The public gets their high-sugar circuses. Who has the interest in opposing social media? Apple?

I don't think this ends by something or somebody you can point a finger at and say "that did it"

Looking throughout history, these kinds of interlocking systemic crises always end in ways the participants did not expect and could not have been expected to deal with even if they had known.

Taking the Roman Empire as a loose example, if you had sat down with the Senate and Emperor in, say 100 AD and told them exactly what would happen? First they wouldn't have believed you and second even if they had believed you there was nothing they could have done about it. You see, the Romans expected a state that was the same as a religion, they expected threats to the Empire to come in the form of large armies with single, great wars. They expected a cultural "soft power" that was unmatched.

None of that was true. Or rather, it was true until it wasn't, and even then it took hundreds of years to completely fizzle out. As an economist once said, things that can't continue won't continue. But in this kind of situation, by definition we're unable on this side of it to see what it'll look like from the other side of history.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#598

I think Facebook, as well as other social media, are a grand experiment of Karl Popper's "The Paradox of Tolerance." [0] In keeping a largely hands-off approach to moderation they functionally provided the preconditions for such an experiment. > Less well known [than other paradoxes] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to…

And who should get to decide what's "intolerant"? You? Why? This "paradox of tolerance" thing is just a cudgel used to advocate for censorship, and people who bring it out (who I suspect have never read anything else Poppe wrote) seldom discuss the logical implications of the view they're espousing. The "paradox of tolerance", in other words, is nothing more than a thought terminating cliche.

The funny thing is that such a use turns it on its head. Censorship is exactly "refusing to meet on the level of rational argument". Censorship is exactly "denouncing argument". Censorship is exactly "forbid their followers to listen". If anything, Popper is saying that Republicans need to get violent.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whistleblowers are anti-authoritarian, which is typically a right wing/conservative position in contemporary politics. To the people downvoting me here: can you list some figures who have been protesting authoritarianism who are left-coded in contemporary American society? I'm thinking of wikileaks, edward snowden, glenn greenwald. These people have all been "accused" of being right wingers. The people protesting loc…

> To the people downvoting me here: can you list some figures who have been protesting authoritarianism who are left-coded in contemporary American society? Noam Chomsky?

Georg Orwell

Not sure about "left-coded in contemporary American society" but he was an anarchist / social-liberal / social-democratic - albeit in terms of early 20 century western europa.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#600
post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Similarly, collectivist organizations always seem to result in top-down totalitarian regimes when they win the government. Substantially, that's a matter of history rather than ideology. Collectivist organizations that aren't top-down organized tend to be unsuccessful in overthrowing states and remaining in power in the face of more authoritarian opposition. The fact that the Russian revolution led to Stalinism is…

I have to say, I find your "survivorship bias" argument novel, but also a bit ridiculous, considering that Karl Marx openly called for violent, bloody revolution: “there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror." So the ideology claims violent overthrow of g…

Violent bloody revolution is fine! It's what comes afterward that leftists disagree about. Compare, for example, Revolutionary Catalonia (unsuccessful) with Soviet Russia (lasted 70 years, never achieved communism).
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