Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#171

Post by flandish » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #83

flandish wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is how this is different than Nike making shoes with child labor overseas in the "global south", etc. That harms children, for profit. Facebook is a for profit organization. This is the rule with organizations like this. If given enough time, size, and lack of shielding, any corporation will eventually cause harm in some way. We seem to have less focus on "Nike whistleblowers" or similar, you…

Nike has received (and continues to receive) a lot of attention about that sort of thing for decades. But, on a larger level, I see several comments that seem to be implying that talking about the wrongdoing of one company isn't valid unless we talk about the wrongdoing of all companies at the same time. I think that argument is faulty. If the argument were good, then it wouldn't be possible to talk about any company…

I understand where you are coming from - I was speaking more to the "meta" understanding of how this is a surprise to some folks (in gov).

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#172

Post by dustinchilson » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

parineum wrote: post #139

asdff wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treat addictive social media companies like addictive cigarette companies. Lets see some huge warning labels about how mentally harmful it is to continue scrolling on facebook right on the first result where its unavoidable to see. Lets tax the hell out of social media companies to generate local revenue just like sin taxes. It won't be a huge change but it will be a great starting point and will come with revenue th…

> sin taxes How about we don't let the state decide what I get to do with my body (and mind)?

Isn't this the root of the problem?

Neither you or the government/state decides what you get to do with your mind. An advertising company decides what to do with it and can manipulate it however it decides best benefits itself. Not you, not society, Facebook, what makes Facebook the most money.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#173

Post by MetaWhirledPeas » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

handmodel wrote: post #146

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personalized advertising.

What would be the definition of this? I listen to a podcast on football. Are they allowed to run ads that are about sports betting and NFL tickets? That is personalized to the group. Is Facebook allowed to run ads for sports betting to all people who are fans of a professional team on their site? Is Facebook not allowed to run me ads for local restaurants any more?

This could be done. The ads on a football podcast could be based on who their broader audience is, not based on a specific user.

> Is Facebook not allowed to run me ads for local restaurants any more?

Nope.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#174

Post by darkwizard42 » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

ncr100 wrote: post #142

As a technologist, to me this is technology being disruptive without sufficient control. In this case disruptive to human communication. And FB doesn't also have a comprehensive suite of human ethics sufficiently in their loop. Why did FB do this: She identified a disconnect between the FB Civic Engagement team recommendations and FB acting on those recommendations, in one of the 60 Minutes videos. She says people at…

I mean disbanding the civic integrity team after a huge civic event seems reasonable? It could have been the team was more of a task force and comes together when large events occur. We don't really have any/much insight into how they spun up a war room for the 2020 election.

A related situation might be how Lyft/Uber have massive war rooms and special ops teams to handle Halloween and New Years (massive heavy traffic events on these platforms). There is a special ops team and several marketplace teams that get pulled in, but they get "disbanded" and go work on more standard things after

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#175

Post by mynameisash » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

parineum wrote: post #139

asdff wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treat addictive social media companies like addictive cigarette companies. Lets see some huge warning labels about how mentally harmful it is to continue scrolling on facebook right on the first result where its unavoidable to see. Lets tax the hell out of social media companies to generate local revenue just like sin taxes. It won't be a huge change but it will be a great starting point and will come with revenue th…

> sin taxes How about we don't let the state decide what I get to do with my body (and mind)?

That's not what a sin tax does. You are still free to smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol, and were we to tax social media usage, you would still be free to use or not use that.

But a sin tax ostensibly accounts for the economic externality*. We know that cigarettes impose a cost on society beyond the individual smoker. I'm all in favor of making people pay for things that we know cause damage to society more broadly. And I hardly think it's controversial that social media is in many aspects harmful to society.

*Sin taxes are technically different than pigovian taxes, but I and I think most people tend to use the terms interchangeably.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#176

Post by oarabbus_ » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

parineum wrote: post #139

asdff wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treat addictive social media companies like addictive cigarette companies. Lets see some huge warning labels about how mentally harmful it is to continue scrolling on facebook right on the first result where its unavoidable to see. Lets tax the hell out of social media companies to generate local revenue just like sin taxes. It won't be a huge change but it will be a great starting point and will come with revenue th…

> sin taxes How about we don't let the state decide what I get to do with my body (and mind)?

You are are able to consume both tobacco and alcohol (let's not tangent into a drug legalization discussion). Tobacco and alcohol cause measurable societal harm and measurable costs to the state - are you implying it's unreasonable for states to tax these goods for those reasons?

Generally speaking I'd rather reduce taxes but I fail to see what's wrong with e.g. an alcohol excise tax going towards rehabilitation and/or highway safety programs. "Sin tax" is just a colloquial name for an excise tax, which a state has every right to enact.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#177

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

aardvarkr wrote: post #63

shmatt wrote: post #36

There is something that doesn't sit right with me about the whistleblower. Yes, she is a data scientist which gives her many many extra points. But, she was a PM for 2 years in FAANG. Her actual scope of the what was going on in FB as a huge org, as she's trying to comment on (the "I want to fix FB" quotes from 60 minutes) Everyone I know who works in FAANG, FB specifically, and PMs even more specifically, really hav…

What's your point here? This lady is a PRODUCT manger and heads up the entire product, in this case Civic Integrity, which was directly charged with tamping down hate on the platform related to civic engagement. She is not a PROJECT manager like what you deal with on your engineering team. She is by definition an expert on this segment of Facebook and you're dismissing her wrongly for being a "PM". She's a Harvard MB…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#178

Post by shkkmo » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #73

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her bigger risk is probably the employment angle. Hard to picture hiring this person except if you're 100% certain your company's behavior aligns with her morals, and you can't find anyone else. Even for people who generally agree with her view on Facebook employing her presents a pretty serious known risk at this point.

Oh, she doesn’t work in tech now. Her work will now involve television interviews and book-signing tours. From that jumping off point, she’ll be able to do what she likes.

I think that underestimates her abilities. I think it is more likely she will found or at least join a policy focused non-profit that will further her social goals while making use of her existing technical and management skills.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#179

Post by analognoise » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

parineum wrote: post #139

asdff wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treat addictive social media companies like addictive cigarette companies. Lets see some huge warning labels about how mentally harmful it is to continue scrolling on facebook right on the first result where its unavoidable to see. Lets tax the hell out of social media companies to generate local revenue just like sin taxes. It won't be a huge change but it will be a great starting point and will come with revenue th…

> sin taxes How about we don't let the state decide what I get to do with my body (and mind)?

So you get to ignore all the responsibilities that come with your rights so you get to clog up our hospitals with your bad decisions?

How about you take full responsibility: you get to not put whatever in your body, and you agree never to take an ambulance ride or be treated by a hospital.

Don't want the vaccine? That's fine, it's your right. But now when you can't breathe, nobody coming to help.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#180

Post by runarberg » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

handmodel wrote: post #146

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personalized advertising.

What would be the definition of this? I listen to a podcast on football. Are they allowed to run ads that are about sports betting and NFL tickets? That is personalized to the group. Is Facebook allowed to run ads for sports betting to all people who are fans of a professional team on their site? Is Facebook not allowed to run me ads for local restaurants any more?

I’m guessing that people use targeted advertising and personalized advertising interchangeably. The advertising industry knows full well what it means, and I’m sure the legislator should have no problem finding experts in that area to make a legally rigorous definition.