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Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

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Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#521

Post by scaryclam »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #354
handrous wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want Facebook fixed and I do want Facebook harmed. I don't want the government to meddle with what types of things people can say online, I want them to ban the business model of stalking people online and selling intimate details of their lives. If the problem is Facebook choosing profits over public good, then cut off the profits. This is obvious. Bingo. Make stalking at scale the same as stalking by cree…

It's not the same at all. You are certainly allowed to give someone permission to 'stalk' you in exchange for money, a service, etc. Stalking is only illegal because that person "doesn't" have your permission. Lots of normal & legal activities are only illegal outside of a contract. There is also a ton of precedent for 'passive' tracking. Security cameras, dash cams, etc. all record stuff that is in plain view. The i…

The difference is, I didn't give them permission to stalk me, and yet they still are. I am not in plain view, I have adblockers, and do-not-track, I reject cookies from facebook and have never given them my phone number. Yet they know my phone number as someone I know allowed their app to look at their contacts, they keep shadow profiles and they create new domains so they can get around adblockers and cookie rules. They even change their privacy settings just to make it harder to keep up with protecting yourself if you are a customer.

Many countries have laws against companies harvesting phone numbers just because someone called them, your browser information isn't really different to that.

>90% of the internet DON'T use that business model. It's actually quite a small proportion. They're just all over the place as they make profit from creeping into other businesses and using them as a collection platform. Ad networks need to be reigned in (and yes, that's what FB is).

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#522

Post by sreque »

r00fus wrote: post #515
sreque wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you sound like you are probably a lot more educated about politics than I am, so hopefully I can learn something from you, but I think one problem in practice is that collectivist views always seem to end in authoritarianism. Even in the U.S., the unions that resulted from collectivism became authoritarian and corrupt in their own right, the teacher's unions of America being a prime example of corruption and autho…

Amusing you seem to have some idea of consequences of politics movements - however, so-called conservatives (and libertarians), by unseating government power (which is the only organization large enough to challenge corporate power) leaves a power vacuum for wealthy/corporations to usurp that power. So anti-government-reguluation leads to a different flavor of fascism by corporate elites (all owned by the very wealth…

I'm glad you find me amusing, but I actually agree with you that the concept of power decentralization needs to be applied to corporations as well. I definitely don't claim to have the answers to how to accomplish this, nor did I think the U.S. founders would ever imagine the power that corporations would eventually wield.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#523

Post by samstave »

calrueb wrote: post #143

I like to imagine there are a bunch of Facebook Homefeed engineers out there who ran dozens experiments, tuning this-and-that, and found the ones that boosted revenue, and user engagement by X%. No one thought too deeply at _why_ some experiments were successful. Perhaps it was chalked up as "our new ML model is matching users to content they care about more efficiently". Then they shipped it, and everyone celebrated…

FB does this in spades - as does google. And their goals with AI/ML is to have these tweaks done by AI - and let the humans only take glee in seeing their shipped code working and making results that make Zucks coffers happy.

FB ran an experiment of language across millions of users about a greeting sentiment and other syntax/context to see which types of phrases got the highest level of engagement... (I cant find the story, it was on NPR a few years ago...

When I was at FB they had a "build your own bar" event where each department were to build their own bar for happy hours, and then FB would give ~$400 or something like that to stock it up...

Down the rown from us was the ML/BI group of some sort - they had their bar up super fast and were having happy hours every day it seemed.... bunch of weird folks on that team, super smart, weird folks.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#524

Post by joelbluminator »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #493
creature_x wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point but individuals living their sovereign lives isn't the issue; the issue is if Facebook keeps kindling the fires of division a day could come where we're knocking at the gates of a civil war. Is that too hyperbolic ? I don't know but if asking people in California what they think of Texas/Florida and vice-versa is a litmus test, perhaps some concern is in order.

The division seems to me leading more to a breakup of the united states, into smaller countries. If one believes in democracy, and local democratic will. Why would that necessarily be bad. The country is filled with red states on the inside, and blue states on the outside. Doesn't seem like the people in the middle are getting the kind of government they vote for. And the people in the blue states have to temper down…

It's possible but the economic and social upheavel would be massive. Not a good scenario for anyone I think.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#526

Post by e12e »

kapp_in_life wrote: post #253
pr0zac wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(only explaining, not expressing any political beliefs here) Leftist internet slang for holding a centrist opinion at all costs based on the common belief that the current democratic establishment and its supporters spend too much time trying to please or listen to both sides and reach a compromise even when one side is expressing ridiculous or fascist opinions.

Put succinctly, "not being leftist enough"

It's not entirely new, that "liberal" is seen as "walk right, talk left":

https://youtu.be/QpIB7tXOHCA

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#527

Post by conspiracynutz »

lettergram wrote: post #266

This woman literally joined Facebook to help "combat conspiracy theories". She is clearly political. https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1445185217510187013?... It appears, from the 60 min interview, reason she came forward was that conservatives were allowed to communicate and organize. Frankly, I suspect her whole goal here is more censorship and only for one party.

Are you claiming she fabricated the information she’s presenting? I don’t think there’s any proof of that. Especially not some radically right-wing conspiracy tweets.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#528

Post by adolph »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #374
gorwell wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same feeling that it doesn't quite add up. The use of the term `whistleblower` has been dubious from the start with little to no new information, she just admitted to only deciding to come forward after facebook dissolved her team, and it appears that she's being advised by a political firm. "Frances Haugen, the former Facebook employee who has for the past 10 months fed internal documents to a top Wall Str…

And so ? If you are going to be a "whistleblower" about something like this, and you want to be effective, are you really going to try and plan out your actions alone?

If the whistleblower is a directed by an organization that sees political advantage in attacking the whistle's subject, is that person still a whistleblower or just a whistle?

I have no information about the whistleblower but I am open to the possibility that the motives are more complex than a simple case of altruism. Understanding the motivation of the whistleblower is significant to understanding the completeness and perspective of their information.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#529

Post by swearwolf »

_ivvf wrote: post #184
ryandrake wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each "team" accuses the other of being authoritarian. So, when blue team is in charge, the reds think of themselves as anti-authoritarian. When red team is in charge, the blues think of themselves as anti-authoritarian. Basically, it's a rhetorical ploy to gain a few cheap points: When the side in charge does something you don't like, just call them "authoritarians," and your cause, whatever it is, becomes more appea…

Except what you are saying is not really true. Most conservatives want to reduce government power, not extend it. The left, on the other hand, universally wants to extend government reach. I would recommend reading "The Authoritarian Moment" which goes into detail as to how the left are basically winning: https://www.amazon.com/Authoritarian-Moment-Weaponized-Ameri... To quote from the book's introduction: "There are…

Given the right’s decades long push to invalidate a woman’s right to obtain an abortion, I find it pretty hard to accept the idea that most conservatives aren’t authoritarian.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#530

Post by e12e »

roody15 wrote: post #31

To me this is a fake story being promoted as a way to further a political narrative. Nothing the whistleblower has revealed is shocking or previously unknown. Yes facebook tweaks an algorithm on your news feed to drive engagement and make money. Yes facebook allows some content that some would consider not to align with mainstream US narratives. My two cents this is an attempt to force facebook to kowtow to the US an…

It may be propaganda - but how is "a false story" if it is true?
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