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Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

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Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#51

Post by smorgusofborg »

tinus_hn wrote: post #48
smorgusofborg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are breakdown for hospitalized in Switzerland: https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/vaccination/breakthrough Switzerland runs with a much higher infection rate and faster economy than Germany because it has many more beds per million. These beds are being occupied by more 20 somethings without than 80 somethings with vaccination. I'm annoyed by the slowness of things in Switzerland, I'm impacted by the even more abs…

Cumulative numbers for the entire length of the pandemic: Hospitalizations for 0-9: 199 Hospitalizations for 10-19: 85 Hospitalizations for 80+: 2142 Breakthrough hospitalizations: 60-69: 47 70-79: 73 80+: 107 I’m not sure what you’re seeing in this data. Perhaps if you pick and choose age groups you can make it look like more young people end up in hospitals than old vaccinated people. But you’d have be really selec…

20-29 is twenty something, already they need more beds than the 80%+ of 80+ year olds that vaccinated and those 20 somethings aren't the ones who know they had a medical problem unless they were seven orders of stupid and still didn't vaccinate.

Looking at the older working age groups we have more than 50% vaccinated in most and something like 100X less chance the vaccinated go to hospital. So if you hate restrictions then get vaccinated so we don't have to come up with creative ways to protect a hospital bed from you.

*Those numbers are not since the pandemic began but since the vaccination began. The oldest age group and people with health issues were vaccinated first so comparisons should be biased against the vaccinated, but it is too effective to see that bias.

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#52

Post by javagram »

incrudible wrote: post #45
javagram wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other studies show the vaccines provide between 40-70% reduction in COVID-19 Delta infections.[0] Looking at your link, it looks like the comparisons they make are purely based on COVID case counts and vaccination percentages. There are other factors that need to be considered: counties with higher vaccination rates in the USA are also likely to have a higher rate of testing, due to the politics of COVID (people who…

There is currently no reduction in infections among double vaccinated people in Israel. Waning protection against infection means that any study giving a single number for reduction is a snapshot of a situation in the past, not a predictor. Perhaps staggered booster administration in 3 month intervals could achieve a constant reduction approaching 90%.

Many Israelis have received a booster shot. Comparing “double vaccinated” population there would need to take into account and adjust for the reasons why that segment of the population did not receive a booster. Otherwise you aren’t comparing like for like.

Using a country that had not given out boosters, like the USA or UK until recently, you’d get a better idea of the efficacy of the vaccine against Delta infections.

Moreover even in Israel the daily cases among double vaccinated are less than those among the unvaccinated. Look at the chart here https://www.ft.com/content/a1b2fd70-71b5-4e91-be0b-553b0e1e2... The line for “Two dose” cases per 100k among over 60 year olds is below unvaccinated since august 15 and continually remains less.

90%? No, that’s too high, but for instance data from public health England is saying the vaccines have around 15-45% efficacy (or 40-80% if doses 8+ weeks apart) against covid-19 infection after 25+ weeks, not 0%. https://mobile.twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1437890711139995...

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#53

Post by nojokes »

incrudible wrote: post #16
bb88 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying something is safe and effective doesn't make it so. That said, the numbers of death and continued infections don't lie. Brazil was ivermectin happy, but it didn't stop the infections and subsequent deaths. What is stopping infections and deaths? The vaccine. That's pretty clear. So why aren't you 100% behind the vaccine? Are you too wrapped up with your stance with Ivermectin that you can no longer change your…

The vaccines are not stopping infections. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7

I have commented about this load of crap elsewhere. In short: they add include complete nonsense - statistics from Africa and 3 specific outliers - Israel, Mongolia (both vaccinated very quickly) and Malaysia (got into large wave just before vaccination started to ramp up).

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#54

Post by tinus_hn »

smorgusofborg wrote: post #51
tinus_hn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cumulative numbers for the entire length of the pandemic: Hospitalizations for 0-9: 199 Hospitalizations for 10-19: 85 Hospitalizations for 80+: 2142 Breakthrough hospitalizations: 60-69: 47 70-79: 73 80+: 107 I’m not sure what you’re seeing in this data. Perhaps if you pick and choose age groups you can make it look like more young people end up in hospitals than old vaccinated people. But you’d have be really selec…

20-29 is twenty something, already they need more beds than the 80%+ of 80+ year olds that vaccinated and those 20 somethings aren't the ones who know they had a medical problem unless they were seven orders of stupid and still didn't vaccinate. Looking at the older working age groups we have more than 50% vaccinated in most and something like 100X less chance the vaccinated go to hospital. So if you hate restriction…

You do know it is possible for people to be vaccinated and still be against vaccination mandates?

Anyway as you insist on calling people stupid and just want to force your opinion on others I’m through discussing you.

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#55

Post by smorgusofborg »

tinus_hn wrote: post #54
smorgusofborg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20-29 is twenty something, already they need more beds than the 80%+ of 80+ year olds that vaccinated and those 20 somethings aren't the ones who know they had a medical problem unless they were seven orders of stupid and still didn't vaccinate. Looking at the older working age groups we have more than 50% vaccinated in most and something like 100X less chance the vaccinated go to hospital. So if you hate restriction…

You do know it is possible for people to be vaccinated and still be against vaccination mandates? Anyway as you insist on calling people stupid and just want to force your opinion on others I’m through discussing you.

To be clear I'm saying the only way I know to make:

> hospitals are filling up with the vulnerable population

From the Swiss numbers is to really assume the worst in people.

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#56

Post by bb88 »

vcoelho wrote: post #42
ekianjo wrote: post #17

Where's the data in this article? No graphs, no publication? If I want a full conclusion I'd like to see more than a journalist's take on this.

I guess that's the point? No solid evidence of ivermectin efficacy existed before the government launched a national-wide web form that prescribed it for anyone with Covid symptoms, or before major health insurers started testing on patients without their families consent, or people rushing to the pharmacy and clearing out their stock of those medicine.

That and it didn't stop the deaths. Now that vaccinations have taken hold we can probably expect the numbers to drop significantly.

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#57

Post by bb88 »

doliveira wrote: post #35

Looks like Hacker News really switched. We can expect in a few weeks commentators defending anal ozone and HCQ aspiration for pregnant women as well, can't we?

Yeah, it's been a shitshow for a while. Anti-vaxxers have taken over the site pretty much on this.

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#58

Post by ekianjo »

api wrote: post #41
tinus_hn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to believe vaccines stop infections to be able to blame the unvaccinated for the continuation of the pandemic.

I don’t blame the unvaccinated for the continuation of the pandemic, but they can clearly be blamed for overflowing hospitals. The vaccine sharply reduces severe symptoms and long term symptoms.

which overflowed hospitals?

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#59

Post by ekianjo »

smorgusofborg wrote: post #33
tinus_hn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the old ‘vaccinations will prevent mutations’ fantasy. Even if you believe it is possible to vaccinate the entire human population world wide and that vaccinations prevent infections, covid spreads through animal reservoirs. Are you suggesting we can vaccinate all animals?

Mutation in animals typically lower it's viability in humans. So the question is if I have been vaccinated and there aren't enough unvaccinated people to jam hospitals, why do I continue to care about viruses in animal populations that are just like any other virus that might pop up the next time someone licks a bat? If I'm willing to take any sort of vaccine for it when it becomes viable again in humans, then I'm sa…

> Mutation in animals typically lower it's viability in humans.

What is that based on? The Marseille IV mutation of COVID19 came from an animal reservoir and had no issue to cross species and it was one of the deadliest variants.

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#60

Post by ekianjo »

throwaway510921 wrote: post #22
ekianjo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is stopping infections and deaths? The vaccine. Vaccinated people still get and spread infections - They simply dont get much symptoms from it. This kind of comment is exactly why people don't understand what the "vaccines" actually do.

>Vaccinated people still get and spread infections With a better immune response, infected people are also less contagious. So technically, yes, vaccines stop the infections.

> infected people are also less contagious.

Complete bullshit. It has been demonstrated in several publications that the viral load among vaccinated people is just as high as unvaccinated people, and viral load in key areas like the nose is what spreads infections.

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