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Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

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Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#421

Post by _hlgc »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #126
chmsky00 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not “unknown” to technologists. How it all works is very unknown to the average parent. This thread seems to think the government needs to function with the logic of this thread in mind. Pretty entitled to believe you’re the only perspective worth listening to. Any individual is just “one of seven billion.” Shut the computers off and what perspective do you have that puts you above anyone else?

> It’s not “unknown” to technologists. I think the odd bit is that if this information isn't unknown to anyone in technology, even those not working on similar systems, then how is this "whistleblowing". It's like calling informing people about marginal tax rates "whistleblowing" because so many people don't understand how they work.

In this case it's a specific term related to SEC whistleblowing protections. The context is not about whistleblowing for some semblance of public protection, but whistleblowing for protection of investors who may have been misled.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#422

Post by whimsicalism »

incahoots wrote: post #356
stickfigure wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dismantle social media entirely. You mean, stop allowing people to communicate with each other?

Solid reply by taking what I said to the extreme. Phone, text, email, etc aren't social media...but you knew that already.

Is Whatsapp social media?

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#423

Post by LordHumungous »

wellthisishn wrote: post #395
LordHumungous wrote: post #378

Nobody seems to care to look at the actual data she provided. It's weak imo. 15% of teens say FB makes their lives worse, 34% say it makes their lives better , and 51% say neither. This is an online poll. Among teens who are depressed, more say that FB/IG has a negative impact. Well ok, a more negative response is exactly what you'd expect from people who are reporting to be depressed. Then there's the supposed impac…

It has made my life worse. And I know of people who agree.. Maybe you don't use it? It's highly political, divisiveness is obvious. Maybe you simply don't use or analyze it, so obvious things about it aren't obvious to you

I don't see any divisiveness nor politics on my feed. It's all baby pictures and vacation photos. Anecdotes are not data.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#424

Post by quotemstr »

streamofdigits wrote: post #384
xibalba wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tracking everything people do isn't a "business model"—it's a crime. Could you point me to a law that codifies this as crime? I have yet to see convincing proof of widespread or significant harm caused by tracking/retargeting. These arguments always seem to rely on hyperbole and redefining terms and norms. No, I don’t work at FB. No, I don’t work in digital advertising.

What would be convincing proof according to your standards? The complete implosion of democracy? The visible persecution of some minority? Tracing everything back via a proper legalistic paper trail to the actions of a single corporate entity? That's not how the road to hell is usually paved. Who redefined "Terms and norms"? Who declared that privacy is dead? The problem really is that people have normalized a practi…

Yes, FB or anyone else should be punished only after violating a law written down for everyone to see in advance of the action that supposedly violated that law.

The road to hell is built by ignoring the rule of law to go after whoever is "bad" in the moment.

There's an ancient legal principle called "nulla poena sina legal", which means "no punishment without a law". It's the foundation of all justice.

Here's a classic quote from A Man for all Seasons that helps explain:

Roper: So now you’d give the Devil benefit of law?

More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

Roper: I’d cut down every law in England to do that!

More: Oh? And, when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you – where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country’s planted thick with laws from coast to coast – man’s laws, not God’s – and, if you cut them down – and you’re just the man to do it – d’you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#426

Post by bryan_w »

scop wrote: post #55
roody15 wrote: post #31

To me this is a fake story being promoted as a way to further a political narrative. Nothing the whistleblower has revealed is shocking or previously unknown. Yes facebook tweaks an algorithm on your news feed to drive engagement and make money. Yes facebook allows some content that some would consider not to align with mainstream US narratives. My two cents this is an attempt to force facebook to kowtow to the US an…

Let's also remember that Facebook has decimated traditional media. Traditional media seems awfully excited by this "whistleblower"!

Exactly, "Facebook is manipulating us into thinking bad things" from expert manipulators, The Guardian and NYT

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#427

Post by Sebb767 »

ghaff wrote: post #344
joelbluminator wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does it end though? Probably Brad Pitt and Elon Musk and Justin Bieber make a lot of people feel bad about their lives. Should media just stop reporting about them?

Honestly? Yes, the world would probably be a better place if there were less coverage of celebrities--at least in mainstream publications that purport to be at least significantly focused on important news.

Well, the outlets reporting on them became and stayed mainstream by reporting on this. If you ban these news from the "mainstream" ones, you'll just create a new set of mainstream news outlets.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#428

Post by sul_tasto »

Permit wrote: post #232
Mizza wrote: post #45

I find it weird for a whistleblower to be so "lib", as the kids say. She said she 'loves' Facebook, and wants to fix it, not harm it. I don't want Facebook fixed and I do want Facebook harmed. I don't want the government to meddle with what types of things people can say online, I want them to ban the business model of stalking people online and selling intimate details of their lives. If the problem is Facebook choo…

> I want them to ban the business model of stalking people online and selling intimate details of their lives. When you say "selling intimate details of their lives" you are misleading your reader. I don't know if this is intentional on your behalf but it makes it really hard to discuss real problems when you obfuscate them behind quarter truths like "Facebook sells your data".

It is not misleading to say that facebook is stalking even non-users and collecting intimate details of people’s lives. Facebook is violating people’s privacy rights.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#429

Post by [deleted] »

whimsicalism wrote: post #418
SavantIdiot wrote: post #197

The problem is that this issue has now become politicized, which means if you belong to one tribe, you must prevent anything bad from happening to billionaires and trillion-dollar corrupt corporations at all costs.

Sorry, which side is pro-FB?

[deleted]

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#430

Post by coliveira »

The way I see this is that MZ is a gun for hire. He'll do anything using his algorithms and infrastructure to the highest bidder. It is very clear that he can work to grab political power, as it happened in 2016 in the US and more recently in Brazil and other countries. He needs to be stopped for what he's doing.
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