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Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

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Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#181

Post by anon9001 »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #126
chmsky00 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not “unknown” to technologists. How it all works is very unknown to the average parent. This thread seems to think the government needs to function with the logic of this thread in mind. Pretty entitled to believe you’re the only perspective worth listening to. Any individual is just “one of seven billion.” Shut the computers off and what perspective do you have that puts you above anyone else?

> It’s not “unknown” to technologists. I think the odd bit is that if this information isn't unknown to anyone in technology, even those not working on similar systems, then how is this "whistleblowing". It's like calling informing people about marginal tax rates "whistleblowing" because so many people don't understand how they work.

> It's like calling informing people about marginal tax rates "whistleblowing" because so many people don't understand how they work.

You mean like these?

* https://www.propublica.org/article/lord-of-the-roths-how-tec...

* https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trov...

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#182

Post by suzzer99 »

wolfram74 wrote: post #147
EricE wrote: post #3

Some "whistleblower" - seems to think big tech doesn't do enough censorship :p Talk about a wolf in sheeps clothing.

The recurring argument she makes is just that stop using algorithmic content discovery that optimizes engagement because it correlates so strongly with extremism. You could almost get rid of all moderation and just go to chronological and it would improve the public health dimension.

I wish there was an option to make my Facebook feed chronological like there is with twitter.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#183

Post by spywaregorilla »

yodsanklai wrote: post #159
Mizza wrote: post #45

I find it weird for a whistleblower to be so "lib", as the kids say. She said she 'loves' Facebook, and wants to fix it, not harm it. I don't want Facebook fixed and I do want Facebook harmed. I don't want the government to meddle with what types of things people can say online, I want them to ban the business model of stalking people online and selling intimate details of their lives. If the problem is Facebook choo…

> I do want Facebook harmed So much hate... Has Facebook really caused that much suffering to you? Seriously, just don't use it if you don't like it. For most people, it's just a social network where they post innocuous stories and stay connected with their friends.

And for others, it radicalizes them to conspiracy theories. "Just don't use it" isn't nice advice when you're mom's become an antivaxxer because facebook kept telling her about it and made it seem like local common consensus.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#184

Post by _ivvf »

ryandrake wrote: post #148
lexapro wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't anti-authoritarian typically considered a leftist position? So the opposite of what you are saying?

Each "team" accuses the other of being authoritarian. So, when blue team is in charge, the reds think of themselves as anti-authoritarian. When red team is in charge, the blues think of themselves as anti-authoritarian. Basically, it's a rhetorical ploy to gain a few cheap points: When the side in charge does something you don't like, just call them "authoritarians," and your cause, whatever it is, becomes more appea…

Except what you are saying is not really true. Most conservatives want to reduce government power, not extend it. The left, on the other hand, universally wants to extend government reach. I would recommend reading "The Authoritarian Moment" which goes into detail as to how the left are basically winning: https://www.amazon.com/Authoritarian-Moment-Weaponized-Ameri...

To quote from the book's introduction:

"There are certainly totalitarians on the political right. But statistically, they represent a fringe movement with little institutional clout. The authoritarian left, meanwhile, is ascendant in nearly every area of American life. A small number of leftists—college-educated, coastal, and uncompromising—have not just taken over the Democratic Party but our corporations, our universities, our scientific establishment, our cultural institutions. And they have used their newfound power to silence their opposition."

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#185

Post by dogman144 »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #127
Mizza wrote: post #45

I find it weird for a whistleblower to be so "lib", as the kids say. She said she 'loves' Facebook, and wants to fix it, not harm it. I don't want Facebook fixed and I do want Facebook harmed. I don't want the government to meddle with what types of things people can say online, I want them to ban the business model of stalking people online and selling intimate details of their lives. If the problem is Facebook choo…

Spot on. I have a golden rule of social media discussions. If I can tell your politics by listening to your complaints about social media, you don't have anything interesting to add to the conversation. These are systemic issues. They exist because the systems exist in symbiosis. What you would like social media to do or say is not only besides the point, it's indicative (to me) that you don't even understand the nat…

> it's indicative (to me) that you don't even understand the nature of the problem

And this is spot on. It what makes me alternatively have head-exploding frustration or pretty dark nihilism, and check out of politics beyond keeping tabs on what tech regulations might impact the industry.

99% of the "what's next" commentary from leaders and systems with power outside of the tech industry totally miss the point. They aren't even on the same page with the actual systemic problems. The 1% is gleaning some hopeful analysis from leaders like Yang or Buttigieg campaign on, but even then it's often an indirect reference.

I'm very much a match concerns to actions type, but what does one do in this dynamic - call your Senator? That seems a laughably inept option at the moment after watching this play out for the last several years.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#186

Post by JamesLeonis »

I think Facebook, as well as other social media, are a grand experiment of Karl Popper's "The Paradox of Tolerance." [0] In keeping a largely hands-off approach to moderation they functionally provided the preconditions for such an experiment.

> Less well known [than other paradoxes] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.

> But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.

> We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#187

Post by ogaitnas »

roody15 wrote: post #31

To me this is a fake story being promoted as a way to further a political narrative. Nothing the whistleblower has revealed is shocking or previously unknown. Yes facebook tweaks an algorithm on your news feed to drive engagement and make money. Yes facebook allows some content that some would consider not to align with mainstream US narratives. My two cents this is an attempt to force facebook to kowtow to the US an…

What is so fake about this story?

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#188

Post by moviequotes »

nyolfen wrote: post #98
anonymouswacker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strategically speaking, it may be wise for her career prospects & image to appear like she is still loyal to the Corp.

she was not a technical employee, and she will be set for life in ngo, media, or political career fields. facebook has many enemies. she has probably correctly calculated that she will not actually suffer any negative consequences for this; good for her

many enemies? Like who please?

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#189

Post by rajin444 »

nemo44x wrote: post #107
fighterpilot wrote: post #12

The two best ideas I've heard: - Require age verification by law and ban kids from using it. We ban kids from alcohol we should ban them from this. - Require ID verification by law but allow people to use a fake name. Fixes the bots issue and the kid depression issue. The market isn't going to get there by itself because of competition. If insta implements this then they lose market share to snap. So there's a strong…

> This also isn't negative for free speech as a value Free speech is a right in the USA, not a "value". It isn't something we strive for; it is a basic right. Things like film ratings are not legally biding for example. The industry took it upon themselves to create ratings as guidelines to parents. > - Require age verification by law and ban kids from using it. We ban kids from alcohol we should ban them from this.…

Free speech is only a right as far as the constitution guarantees (which is limited). Personally I’d like US culture to fully embrace the value of free speech, but support for it generally depends on if your favorite political party is in power.

If we truly valued free speech we would not have all this debate over censorship.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#190

Post by scop »

epgui wrote: post #132
_-david-_ wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes these are big forces, but they’re all pushing in different directions Are they though? All 3 of these groups have been pushing for only their narrative to be heard. Any other voice is misinformation at best and disinformation at worst.

If you feel this way, have you ever considered that you may be a victim of or participating in the dissemination of misinformation or disinformation?

Which of the following represents disinformation:

(a) the Hunter Biden laptop is likely a Russian ploy

(b) the Hunter Biden laptop was verified independently by journalists and colleagues

Which of the following represents misinformation:

(a) it is very curious that a global pandemic originated in the same location as a biosafety level 4 lab

(b) it was impossible that the virus originated from a lab and in fact it is xenophobic and racist to imply the virus originated in a lab

In both stories, Big Tech + Government + The Press all took swift and unified action towards the "approved" narrative.

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