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Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

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Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#101
post #31

To me this is a fake story being promoted as a way to further a political narrative. Nothing the whistleblower has revealed is shocking or previously unknown. Yes facebook tweaks an algorithm on your news feed to drive engagement and make money. Yes facebook allows some content that some would consider not to align with mainstream US narratives. My two cents this is an attempt to force facebook to kowtow to the US an…

Ooh! "Fake story", "mainstream US narratives", "discourse"!

All the greatest hits. You forgot "alternative facts".

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes, people run so fast from the 1984 future where a big unfettered government decides their fate that they trip and fall right into the Snow Crash future where big unfettered corporations decide their fate. There's no simple answers here.

I will categorically say that I'll take unfettered corporations over unfettered government every single time . I can quit Facebook. Good luck quitting your government. These are not remotely equivalent things, and I bristle every time I hear someone suggest it.

I cannot "quit" Equifax, Experian, TransUnion, and Facebook collecting info about me.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes, people run so fast from the 1984 future where a big unfettered government decides their fate that they trip and fall right into the Snow Crash future where big unfettered corporations decide their fate. There's no simple answers here.

I will categorically say that I'll take unfettered corporations over unfettered government every single time . I can quit Facebook. Good luck quitting your government. These are not remotely equivalent things, and I bristle every time I hear someone suggest it.

> I can quit Facebook.

Maybe. If I quit Facebook, I can't messenger my loved ones anymore and my Oculus is now a lovely brick someone bought me for Christmas.

At a certain scale, the power dynamics start to look very similar. Governments still generally maintain a monopoly on violence, that's a big difference.

Generally. I think we can consider "Deported because your employer has no further use for you" a mostly-government-but-kind-of-weird-hand-in-glove-with-corporate-power blended category.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#105
Nothing screams first world problems than this…parents have completely lost the plot and have outsourced child rearing to public schools, social media and can’t control their children anymore. That’s where the rot begins.

No one has any personality anymore. Everyone is a public school clone. The need to conform and belong begins early. The need for validation and FOMO kicks in later. This wasnt started by social media but at schools.

This problem was seeded twenty -twenty five years ago. Children should be treated as children and adults should be in charge. First steps first..shut down all public schools except for those who cannot afford it. Secondly, cut out all wasteful spending and ask the govt to govern according to voters. While we are at it, let’s establish local governance and not regional and national control. Everyone should be able to form like minded communities and live free. Maybe then we will all live in unique communities with true diversity. That’s when targeting masses to sell becomes tricky. ‘Masses’..get it? We have become masses ..herds even..of consumers.

Finally..if people have children, then they should parent. It’s a full time job. Stop shifting blame. No..it doesn’t take a village to raise the fruit of your loins. Just takes parents who feel accountable.

I blame feminism. The end.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#106
post #31

To me this is a fake story being promoted as a way to further a political narrative. Nothing the whistleblower has revealed is shocking or previously unknown. Yes facebook tweaks an algorithm on your news feed to drive engagement and make money. Yes facebook allows some content that some would consider not to align with mainstream US narratives. My two cents this is an attempt to force facebook to kowtow to the US an…

It’s not “unknown” to technologists. How it all works is very unknown to the average parent. This thread seems to think the government needs to function with the logic of this thread in mind. Pretty entitled to believe you’re the only perspective worth listening to. Any individual is just “one of seven billion.” Shut the computers off and what perspective do you have that puts you above anyone else?

Your perspective disregards the likelihood that this whistleblowers input will be used to censor political speech rather than actually protect children and teens online.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#107

The two best ideas I've heard: - Require age verification by law and ban kids from using it. We ban kids from alcohol we should ban them from this. - Require ID verification by law but allow people to use a fake name. Fixes the bots issue and the kid depression issue. The market isn't going to get there by itself because of competition. If insta implements this then they lose market share to snap. So there's a strong…

> This also isn't negative for free speech as a value

Free speech is a right in the USA, not a "value". It isn't something we strive for; it is a basic right.

Things like film ratings are not legally biding for example. The industry took it upon themselves to create ratings as guidelines to parents.

> - Require age verification by law and ban kids from using it. We ban kids from alcohol we should ban them from this.

As for alcohol - purchasing alcohol isn't a protected right and not analogous to speech at all.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I find it weird for a whistleblower to be so "lib", as the kids say. What do you mean? I don't follow the latest slang, but I would've assumed this would mean "liberal", except I don't see what that would have to do with the rest of what you said.

Whistleblowers are anti-authoritarian, which is typically a right wing/conservative position in contemporary politics. To the people downvoting me here: can you list some figures who have been protesting authoritarianism who are left-coded in contemporary American society? I'm thinking of wikileaks, edward snowden, glenn greenwald. These people have all been "accused" of being right wingers. The people protesting loc…

Ahem what, anti-authoritarian mean "right wing" ? That's far from the truth. Left/right came from the French revolution, the left wanted the king death, king being the symbol of authority in the country.

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#109
post #45

I find it weird for a whistleblower to be so "lib", as the kids say. She said she 'loves' Facebook, and wants to fix it, not harm it. I don't want Facebook fixed and I do want Facebook harmed. I don't want the government to meddle with what types of things people can say online, I want them to ban the business model of stalking people online and selling intimate details of their lives. If the problem is Facebook choo…

> I don't want Facebook fixed and I do want Facebook harmed. I don't want the government to meddle with what types of things people can say online, I want them to ban the business model of stalking people online and selling intimate details of their lives. If the problem is Facebook choosing profits over public good, then cut off the profits. This is obvious. Bingo. Make stalking at scale the same as stalking by cree…

> Make stalking at scale the same as stalking by creeping in the bushes outside someone's house or following them around town. Tracking everything people do isn't a "business model"—it's a crime.

But the government benefits from Facebook (and Google's) stalking ability.

Another recent example from HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28747699

Re: Whistleblower to Congress: Facebook products harm kids and democracy

#110
post #37

What's the solution tho?

I mean, just respecting users who don't want to use algorithms would be a start. Does the chronological option still exist in Facebook? It was broken-on-purpose for YEARS, you'd set it and then it would get reverted in the next visit.

You have to bookmark it, it's not available any place in UI

facebook.com/?sk=h_chr

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