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Is 40 the New 60?

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Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#271

Post by WriterGuy2021 »

honkdaddy wrote: post #264
WriterGuy2021 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a concrete example. There was a guy that had a PhD and worked for big pharma as a researcher all his life. The company he was working for downsized and he was left unemployed at 54. He looked for another position somewhere else, but he could not find a position at his pervious level of seniority: he had fallen off the career ladder. He was thus stuck in a strange limbo: he was capable of doing things below his…

At 54 with a PhD, is there a reason he wasn't looking for management or leadership positions instead? I know very little about pharma, but my guess would be that domain knowledge and industry connections would be super valuable.

He had a PhD in econometrics. He was a supreme nerd. He did not strike me as the management type. Some people just aren't able to climb that ladder and they fall off.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#272

Post by lanstin »

Alex3917 wrote: post #231
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

> I focused on learning new tech; Python, Go, Kubernetes, Cloud, etc. OK, but it's also completely legitimate to just say, "I already know Python so now I just want to focus on building better and better things each year, not getting better at tech." And yet that won't make you employable, even though it's probably the ideal strategy as an entrepreneur and product creator.

Sounds a bit dull tho.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#273

Post by atemerev »

kristaps wrote: post #228
atemerev wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it's just yet another profession. No big deal". Exactly, in Europe software engineering is just another profession, with pretty average compensation. Which is not exactly motivating.

I'm from EU, finance and IT are neck to neck for highest paid professions. Absoute pay numbers are lower than US, but under no circumstances could they be called average.

Finance is usually much higher paid (unless you work at US companies, e.g. European offices of Google or Facebook). It's not "average average", like the salary of a truck driver or a researcher in the academia, but still nothing to write home about. Regular engineers or senior people in the trades (e.g. HVAC installers) often earn comparable salaries.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#274

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #190
brandall10 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have that optimism and it certainly is not fake. I love what I do. Yes, I bring experience to the table but not bad energy. WTF would you want to hire someone who poisons the well? It doesn't matter what the job/industry is, in what situation would that be remotely desirable?

This is 100% correct. As a hiring manager, the attitude of candidates was probably equally important as their skills when it comes to the decision of whether to hire. The baseline of is this someone I would enjoy working with every day? Is this someone my team would enjoy working with every day? If it's not a solid yes I'm going to pass on you.

This must be some kind of cultural difference in the purpose of jobs. Where I come from, the purpose of work is get things done, put food on the table, and hopefully not make the world a worse place in the process. Enjoying the company of everyone you work with is not a significant consideration.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#275

Post by racl101 »

SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

I agree that we're doing some of our best stuff in older age.

But can we make employers see that we are not dinosaurs at 38 years old? lol

Otherwise, we'll be stuck making our best work from the confines of our basement.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#276

Post by sys_64738 »

Is it agism? I don't know for sure even though I'm old (>30). There are various scenarios I've seen. Startups want people with little to no experience so they can work ungodly hours as they don't have families. These in my experience tend to have a young CEO who doesn't like being contradicted or challenged from more experienced folk.

Things like web development is such a copy & paste factory that I equate that like working fast food. You get years of experience so become too expensive. They only want to hire more folk with limited experience cheaply. There's no call for too much experience as that is aged quickly when new techs come along.

Some larger companies have older folk there and it's easier to get into those type roles. In my experience their non-web related mostly where specialization is needed. I think there are roles for older folks when they move from the web centric factory roles.

All just my experience.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#277

Post by Nbox9 »

I’ll retire when I age out of coding. Maybe I’ll find something small to provide some income, but I’ve been saving a very large sum of money every year for my entire career and I am finically independent. I’m in my early 30s, and I’m seeing people one or two rungs ahead of me in the ladder begin to age out of coding despite very strong attempts to stay at it. I just can’t imagine enjoying any other career nearly as much as coding. I don’t expect I’ll be able to stay a coder past 45, and 40 might be more realistic. I’m optimizing my career for time spend in an IDE.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#278

Post by no-s »

chrisseaton wrote: post #105
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

> You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. What makes you think that? It's absolutely possible for a 25-year-old to be a more experienced, more technically competent, and more mature than a 40-year-old. Some 40-year-olds have 20x 1 year of experience, compared to some 25-year-old's 5 years of experience. If you think you're inherently better as a 40-year-old developer than all 25-year-old developers th…

> 20x 1 year of experience

That person has 20 years of experience in gaining short experiences. Something the 25 year old prodigy can’t have. Skippercat was just stating a fact.

I feel the way you expressed your opinion reflects some intrinsic ageism. Bigotry often seeks a plausible rationale for justification.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#279

Post by lanstin »

joelbluminator wrote: post #120
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

But still, what is your added level in say Go over a 35 year old who does Go for 5 years already? Wouldn't it have been better to just stick to one or two techs throughout your career?

Better in what way? Only in ways that make people old rather than ways that make people young. Here is a repeatable path to security.

And say I am only just as good as the newbie in go. Isn’t that fine? I am seeking the pleasures of learning and learning with other smart people, not trying to win a contest. My method to do that is find problems, without a recipe answer, for technology problems that my employers are facing. But the motivating goal is to learn new things and build new things.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#280

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

WriterGuy2021 wrote: post #241
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could also tell you about a guy that had a masters degree in chemical engineering working at Best Buy alongside me when I was in college. I've met so many people in my life that have not been privy to the dynamically lateral career system you seem to be aware of. Well he obviously was. He was working at Best Buy.

If making $10 an hour as a retail employee when you have an advanced degree is what you were talking about when you spoke of the non-linear careers people have today...that seems a little facetious to me. I guess if I make some money panhandling, that's also a career change too....right?

> If making $10 an hour as a retail employee when you have an advanced degree is what you were talking about when you spoke of the non-linear careers people have today...

Losing your job or failing to find a job in a field which isn't growing and having to make do with what you can is a fact of life and definitely an example of a non-linear career. There is nothing facetious there.

That might end up just being a way to live while waiting for something else, that might be the start of a career in retail. It's just how it is.

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