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Is 40 the New 60?

neverworkintheory.org

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Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#131

Post by slingnow »

SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

Great. What did any of this have to do with the article? Did you just read the title and get fired up?

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#132

Post by Dumblydorr »

Icathian wrote: post #117
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #37

Don't even get me started (just take a shufti through my posting history on this very site. You'll see this is a subject that has my attention) . > while the experience that comes with age is valued in fields like music, it counts against you in tech. Yup. The Jurassic-scale disasters that are becoming increasingly common, these days, are evidence of unsteady hands at the wheel. I'm not saying that older folks are be…

You post this all the time. You did 27 years at one single company, as you point out so proudly and often. After a stint like that, anyone would be unhireable. It isn't your age, as so many others on this chain have pointed out. You didn't build your CV to be attractive to new employers at all , and when eventually that became relevant again, you were out of luck. I read your posts whenever I see them, it's obvious y…

Why does doing 27 years at one company make someone unhireable? It's one thing if he used the same old tech for 27 years, but without that assumption, seems like ageism to say 27 years at one company is an obvious ground for disqualification.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#133

Post by alexwebb2 »

jasode wrote: post #73
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

>At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done [...] Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, The blog post isn't about self-reported cognitive ability getting stronger (or not declining). It's about the job marketplace . Maybe it's instructive to compare/contrast different professional careers that depend on mental abilities and how age affects marketability: - computer programming :…

The implicit assumption powering this is that programming experience from 35 years ago is not only irrelevant to today’s challenges, but undesirable due to having the wrong habits and patterns of thinking; this stands in contrast to surgery or management skills which are widely perceived to be more timeless with candidate value compounding with experience.

It’s plainly false for all sorts of reasons, but that’s the source of the disparity.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#134

Post by giantg2 »

mindvirus wrote: post #43
giantg2 wrote: post #3

I'm 30s and feel old. The biggest thing is that I don't have the motivation to be fast and work extra hours. I look at the new college grads and remember those days when I didn't have a family and could put in extra hours, believing I had a career.

Trust me you have plenty of time, and your family is more important. Kids grow up fast though, so don't blink - you don't want to miss a thing. Best skill is to manage your work time well and set boundaries. Working overtime is a sign of not having the right structures in place, and being disciplined about those boundaries is a force multiplier - it'll force you to be rigorous about what's valuable. You can make up f…

That sounds good, but my company measure your readiness for promotion by your dedication, and uses extra hours worked as a proxy for that.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#135

Post by bacro »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #124
bacro wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I keep being a jerk to junior developers that constantly comes to me with the same questions after I explained to them 10000 times and they say "Yeaah, I got it now". It is so hard to avoid being a jerk. What should I do?

Stop giving them the full answer and only lead them part way there. They will then (hopefully) learn how to look up documentation for themselves. Essentially "teach a man to fish". They don't necessarily want to know the answer, but they want to know how you know the answer.

That is what I am trying unsuccessfully to do. I made a sugestion the other day and did not write the code. He understood the idea but implemented poorly. When I asked why did he implement it that way, he said "it was your suggestion". I tried very very hard to not explode here...

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#136

Post by brandall10 »

jasode wrote: post #73
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

>At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done [...] Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, The blog post isn't about self-reported cognitive ability getting stronger (or not declining). It's about the job marketplace . Maybe it's instructive to compare/contrast different professional careers that depend on mental abilities and how age affects marketability: - computer programming :…

As mentioned elsewhere in the this chat, I'm a 45 yo principal engineer at my current company who has seen nothing but an increase in attention from recruiters since turning 40.

I'm also directly involved in hiring for my team, having helped add 15 members over the last year, working directly w/ the director to review all resumes, handling maybe 30% of the screens, and usually the veto vote. We've interviewed a number of engineers in their 40s and 50s.

Experience is great and we're always welcoming of older devs... but there is a caveat. If that experience is tempered by a somewhat pessimistic attitude, which is often the case, there is rarely a chance to move forward. It's not being old - it's being worn out.

AFA the resumes of older devs, we often cut them out because they're an objectively terrible, wall of text mess that goes on for 4+ pages. Like 2/3 of the time this is the case.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#137

Post by swader999 »

jasode wrote: post #73
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

>At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done [...] Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, The blog post isn't about self-reported cognitive ability getting stronger (or not declining). It's about the job marketplace . Maybe it's instructive to compare/contrast different professional careers that depend on mental abilities and how age affects marketability: - computer programming :…

Experience at that level is expensive and companies are less inclined to pay that much. They also are less likely to believe you'll be comfortable with taking a lower rate for a long duration. This is true for both CEO and high end programmer with decades of experience.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#138

Post by Icathian »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #132
Icathian wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You post this all the time. You did 27 years at one single company, as you point out so proudly and often. After a stint like that, anyone would be unhireable. It isn't your age, as so many others on this chain have pointed out. You didn't build your CV to be attractive to new employers at all , and when eventually that became relevant again, you were out of luck. I read your posts whenever I see them, it's obvious y…

Why does doing 27 years at one company make someone unhireable? It's one thing if he used the same old tech for 27 years, but without that assumption, seems like ageism to say 27 years at one company is an obvious ground for disqualification.

After a thousand threads on why tech hiring is hard, I don't think I need to re-hash that getting signal from noise is complex and imperfect. Out of the two signals, "this person was successful at 8 different companies" versus "this person stuck in one place for almost three decades", which do you imagine is going to get hired?

It isn't ageism, again go read the rest of this thread. It's the nature of making yourself an attractive candidate. If you don't care to play the game, you can't pout and cry "ageism" when you lose the game.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#139

Post by Dumblydorr »

It's also hard at 22 to get a good job. You fight for entry level wage work, no benefits, no options, vested to 3 years or 5 years. You have to fight hard at any age, though humans will obviously implicitly favor those of their own age and background, if given a choice.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#140

Post by giantg2 »

taf2 wrote: post #39
giantg2 wrote: post #3

I'm 30s and feel old. The biggest thing is that I don't have the motivation to be fast and work extra hours. I look at the new college grads and remember those days when I didn't have a family and could put in extra hours, believing I had a career.

Yeah at around 35 - pulling all nighters actually just kinda starts to hurt… like for more then a day. Also I think no matter the age you’ll always feel old but just remember your not actually old until literally no one else is older then you… think 90s then appreciate being 30s you have 60 years left at least!

The stress and sedentary nature of the job makes it seem like 30 years remaining is a more realistic timeframe.
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