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Is 40 the New 60?

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Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#101

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jasode wrote: post #73
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

>At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done [...] Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, The blog post isn't about self-reported cognitive ability getting stronger (or not declining). It's about the job marketplace . Maybe it's instructive to compare/contrast different professional careers that depend on mental abilities and how age affects marketability: - computer programming :…

Older programmers are judged more on their experience, a 55 year old candidate is expected to have 35 or so years of experience, but interviewing for that is tough. Instead, reputation is more important (having a bunch of people vouch for you so you be hired in as a staff/principal IC), but not everyone will have that, actually a lot of people won’t. So the 20 year old is an unknown quantity, they are all potential, a 55 year old candidate has to be the exact opposite (known quantity, not much accommodation for potential), and so…well, I’m sure we can see the problem with that.

And if you change your career late in life, you are even more screwed by these kinds of standards. A 40 or 45 year old can’t just get into the industry via an entry level position. Even if they would have a 20 year career ahead of them.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#102

Post by brandall10 »

twox2 wrote: post #88
brandall10 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m 45 and have never gotten more attention from recruiters, despite the fact I entered the job market during the height of the dot com era. My graduation date is clearly marked on all resumes in circulation, as is my experience showing my first internship all the way back in ‘96. It’s not only the number of ops that hit my plate, but the sheer aggressiveness of the recruiters. Very often am I contacted repeatedly, s…

Are the recruiters targeting YOU specifically or are they just taking the spray-and-pray approach reaching out to everyone who fits certain keywords?

Most refer to specific aspects of my experience, some specifically referencing my current role (ie. they've read my LI, which also clearly shows my grad date)... some are spray and pray. Probably 80% of things that come my way are applicable to what I do both in skillset and title (Lead/principal/staff/director roles).

Does it matter? If there is some way that recruiters are filtering based on age, my age is clearly discernable.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#103

Post by klohto »

switch007 wrote: post #59
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

> You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. Am I being uncharitable to question if that’s ageism?

You're not. It completely diminishes the whole point. I have met many younger developers who went through different struggles and are more mature than most 40-years old.

Opposite ageism is also real, this one is a proof of it.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#104

Post by danso »

switch007 wrote: post #59
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

> You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. Am I being uncharitable to question if that’s ageism?

Sure, it’s ageism by definition — i.e. discrimination/stereotyping based on age.

But in the current context (of employment), ageism usually refers to discrimination against older people.

For example, the main U.S. federal law on age discrimination:

https://www.eeoc.gov/age-discrimination

> * It is not illegal for an employer or other covered entity to favor an older worker over a younger one, even if both workers are age 40 or older.*

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#105

Post by chrisseaton »

SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

> You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer.

What makes you think that?

It's absolutely possible for a 25-year-old to be a more experienced, more technically competent, and more mature than a 40-year-old.

Some 40-year-olds have 20x 1 year of experience, compared to some 25-year-old's 5 years of experience.

If you think you're inherently better as a 40-year-old developer than all 25-year-old developers then I think you're deeply mistaken.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#106

Post by Aeolun »

thechao wrote: post #64
bacro wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I keep being a jerk to junior developers that constantly comes to me with the same questions after I explained to them 10000 times and they say "Yeaah, I got it now". It is so hard to avoid being a jerk. What should I do?

I was the only English-speaking TA (&, thus backup lecturer) to "Intro to C 101" at a major mass-population state university. Class sizes were ~800 students. I had an open-doors/open-lab/open-office policy. By the 4th semester, I remember laying on the floor in front of the class, and yet another bro (blond hair; blue eyes; chiseled jawline; backwards cap) came up to ask me a, frankly, very well thought out question…

> I remember laying on the floor in front of the class

Is there a nuance to this I’m missing? If my professor suddenly decided to lie down in front of the class I would not casualy amble up and ask a question, I’d be more likely to call an ambulance or burst out laughing.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#107

Post by cyberlurker »

mosburger wrote: post #95
SkipperCat wrote: post #33

40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…

During my last job hunt a little over three years ago, I encountered what I think was some subtle ageism or at least discrimination based on family status (lots of questions about my family life when interviewed by the CTO and CEO, ultimately turned down because they didn't think I had the energy/disposition to be devoted enough to the company to put in extra effort when needed). I ultimately got a job at a better co…

Isn’t that technically illegal?

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#108

Post by dagw »

cbm-vic-20 wrote: post #58
mindvirus wrote: post #10

I don't doubt this, and I'm truly sympathetic to the author's experience. However it doesn't match my experiences. At this age I find I'm getting better and better job offers. Too senior has never been a problem, these offers have been at principal or senior staff levels. I don't think I've been managing my career particularly well (15 years in and 5 jobs), and I've avoided management as best I can, but it doesn't se…

Why is one job a problem, as long as that job keeps you up-to-date with the current state of the art?

as long as that job keeps you up-to-date with the current state of the art?

That is of course the crux. If you're the person that knows how the old stuff works (because you where there when it was the new hotness), you risk being responsible for the old stuff, while the new guy they just hired gets to work on the greenfield Rust project they just started. Had a friend of the family who spent his entire career at a Fortune 500 company. Started programming their back office mainframe systems in the 80s and spent the rest of his career working on those same systems. He knew those systems back to front and was revered as the local mainframe guru. 2002 he lost his job when the company decided to retire that old system and move on to something else. He could not get hired anywhere and ended up having to take a job a petrol station for while.

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#109

Post by Igelau »

fer wrote: post #36

Obligatory quote: >Do not send me email like this: >>Hi Guido, >>I came across your resume in a Google web search. You seem to have an awesome expertise on Python. I would be glad if you can reply my email and let me know your interest and availability. Our client immediately needs a PYTHON Developers at its location in ***, NJ. Below are the job details. If interested and available, kindly fwd me your updated resume…

I'd think that just once it would be fun to troll those people.

"So tell me about the kind of work you've done with Python..."

Re: Is 40 the New 60?

#110

Post by mosburger »

cyberlurker wrote: post #107
mosburger wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During my last job hunt a little over three years ago, I encountered what I think was some subtle ageism or at least discrimination based on family status (lots of questions about my family life when interviewed by the CTO and CEO, ultimately turned down because they didn't think I had the energy/disposition to be devoted enough to the company to put in extra effort when needed). I ultimately got a job at a better co…

Isn’t that technically illegal?

Yeah, it is, but honestly what am I gonna do about it? :/ I suppose I could've reported them to... somebody? Sue them for a job I didn't even really want?

In retrospect I probably should've left a bad review on Glassdoor explaining what happened, but it was so long ago I just sorta forgot about it.

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