Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor • Hacker News Board

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#81

Post by celticninja » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:49 AM UTC

nuerow wrote: post #36

noduerme wrote: post #24

Some guy says it's overblown and this is ranking on HN? Personally, I know several people who are not normally complainers or full of shit who have had some wild effects for 9-12 months after a bout of covid, including visual disturbances, extreme exhaustion, and loss of focus or mental acuity. I really don't doubt my friends who've suffered this. They're not the kind of folks who think they have made-up diseases or…

> Some guy says it's overblown and this is ranking on HN? The guy quoted for said statement is a professor of medicine of a reputable university, so he does have the authority thing sorted out. Also, I feel the quote means something different than the original interpretation. After reading the article, it seems that John Bell simply states that a) long Covid is "more complicated than people assume", and b) it's incid…

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n490

Sounds like the BMJ dont trust this chap and are questioning his financial interests. Therefore I would question his motives with regard to this article, he isnt very forthcoming which is usually indicative of having something to hide.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#82

Post by disneygibson » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:50 AM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #24

Some guy says it's overblown and this is ranking on HN? Personally, I know several people who are not normally complainers or full of shit who have had some wild effects for 9-12 months after a bout of covid, including visual disturbances, extreme exhaustion, and loss of focus or mental acuity. I really don't doubt my friends who've suffered this. They're not the kind of folks who think they have made-up diseases or…

Have you considered that some of these symptoms are consequences of locking down society and preventing real human interaction for 18 months? I haven’t had COVID and I have had more depression and exhaustion in the last year than in my entire life.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#83

Post by Uberphallus » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:51 AM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #75

stuaxo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid itself creates an auto immune response. It's estimated one in seven kids will suffer long Covid. The symptoms aren't the symptoms of depression.

15% of kids seems like an absurdly high number compared to what i've seen reported in the last 18 month (including delta). Aka : in the immense majority people 15% of which kids ? the ones that end up in ICU ?

> 15% of which kids ?

Of all PCR confirmed cases [0]. Disclaimer: preprint.

[0]https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-798316/v1

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#84

Post by Kliment » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:51 AM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #80

Kliment wrote: post #33

This is something that's hard to talk about because it's both painful for patients to hear, and legitimately controversial due to shortage of data. There doesn't seem to be a syndrome here. There's a handful of different symptoms, and they mostly don't occur together. There's certainly long-term symptoms, and mostly correlated with disease severity. You have long-term effects of hypoxia, and long term effects of lung…

I think a lot of the insistence on the “long covid “ terminology is just wanting acceptance that covid-19 can cause these post-viral symptoms, which a lot people still don’t accept, as demonstrated in this thread with people saying it’s just the stress of lockdown. The medical community seems to take the problem(s) seriously, but has very little idea how to treat it. Hopefully the high profile of the problem will lea…

That's the thing. The stress of lockdown is causing its own population-level problems which are getting mixed in with this. That doesn't make the stress-related problems any less real, nor does it make the actual post-covid complications any less real. It just makes them two separate things.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#85

Post by disneygibson » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:51 AM UTC

antiSingularity wrote: post #42

noduerme wrote: post #24

Some guy says it's overblown and this is ranking on HN? Personally, I know several people who are not normally complainers or full of shit who have had some wild effects for 9-12 months after a bout of covid, including visual disturbances, extreme exhaustion, and loss of focus or mental acuity. I really don't doubt my friends who've suffered this. They're not the kind of folks who think they have made-up diseases or…

If we're going to throw anecdotes around, a very close relative of mine has had a severe reaction to the Covid Vaccine (AZ, I believe), and has been off work for 6 months and counting with a variety of health issues.

Anecdotes only count if they agree with the zeitgeist propaganda, I’m afraid.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#86

Post by hactually » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:51 AM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #62

jonahbenton wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG stop. In that same survey 30% of non-Democrats agreed that chances of going to the hospital are > 50%. Maybe Fox News stop scaring the sh*t out of people re COVID too. Except obviously that is not what is going on.

Well, the Democrats are even more misinformed. But yes, the media in general is scaring the shit out of people. That Democrats are the worse afflicted is secondary to that point.

I don't know many democrats backing riots and snarfling horse paste so maybe just stop.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#87

Post by jinder » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:52 AM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #40

noduerme wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you (God forbid) have covid symptoms, you'll differentiate.

That's not a scientific answer. Physical symptoms of stress include: Low energy Headaches Upset stomach, including diarrhea, constipation, and nausea Aches, pains, and tense muscles Chest pain and rapid heartbeat Insomnia Frequent colds and infections Loss of sexual desire and/or ability Nervousness and shaking, ringing in the ear, cold or sweaty hands and feet Dry mouth and difficulty swallowing Clenched jaw and gri…

How do you expect to control for the world-wide psychosocial impact of the pandemic?

It's also pretty widely known that virtually all viruses can have a post-viral syndrome so if it would be MORE surprising if there wasn't a long covid.

I've had long covid for the last 10 months, and finally seem to be coming out of it. At its worst, I would get "episodes" where my entire body would start buzzing, so extreme that it felt like I was plugged into an electric socket. I can't convey to you how extreme this was, and if anyone were to suggest that this was caused by pandemic stress, they would be liable to a stressed response from my fist.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#88

Post by nicoburns » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:52 AM UTC

antiSingularity wrote: post #76

nicoburns wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a lot of these kind of symptoms when in a highly stressful environment is normal. It’s having them even when resting or doing only moderate activity that isn’t. Imagine if you didn’t have kids, got plenty of rest, etc and still felt like you do now. Then imagine what the prospect of looking after your kids would feel like if you already felt this tired when rested.

How can I imagine such a thing? Being a parent makes you do superhuman things. It's just not an option to "not feel like getting out of bed" - for all I know, the extra motivation of needing to care for my young family made me get on with life even when I did feel as bad as your hypothetical well-rested person.

If you have chronic fatigue, it’s not an option TO get out of bed. Your body physically doesn’t have energy. And if you push it, it punishes you by making you even worse.

I myself have a relatively mild case so I can still mostly do my everyday activities, but what has gone is my ability to push myself past my comfort limits. Stay up late onto get something done? Go for a 15 minute run? Previously I’d have felt a bit tired and shit the next day. Now it might leave me ill and in bed with heart pain for 3-5 days.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#89

Post by shoto_io » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:54 AM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #37

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're sharing anecdotes here, I've been enjoying my chronic tinnitus for close to 20 years. It has developed after a bad flu and then never left. It's not a thing you can get used to, at least I haven't been able to.

As a guy who played very loud music for many years, I can relate. Until you said this I was sitting here in silence out in the country listening to frogs and now all I hear is that high whine. I think like a lot of other shit I just learn to tune it out.

This is so crazy. Now that I have read your comment I can clearly hear a high pitch sound which won't stop.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#90

Post by noduerme » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:54 AM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #71

noduerme wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I wondered for a long time about why "mad cow disease" didn't slowly manifest in a much larger percentage of the British population. But I think it did... they're just calling it Alzheimer's.

Mad cow disease is a prion disease, and as such it’s relatively easy to control it’s spread. You would mainly catch it from someone by eating them, which isn’t something we tend to do.

The prion was essentially ubiquitous in the UK's meat supply in the mid-1980s, when it was common practice to grind up the spinal and brain tissue of downed cattle into meal for other cattle. Estimates for how many ingested the prion were in the millions. But very few humans seemed to get vCJD. Instead they either got Alzheimer's or their brains melted and they joined the antivax movement.