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PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

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Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#131

Post by Sander_Marechal »

tinus_hn wrote: post #95
dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

The problem with iDeal is that there is 0 consumer protection. If you pay for an order using a credit card and it’s a scam, you do a chargeback. If you pay for an order using iDeal and it’s a scam, the money is gone the moment you pay. There is no way to get the money back.

Yes there is, talk to your bank. Consumer protection is way better in the EU. I use the same Dutch bank that the OP uses (ING) and I can revert many transactions from right inside the app.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#132

Post by Semaphor »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #49
Semaphor wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that actually mentioned anywhere, publically? We use it and as it’s account-wide, we always calculate which account we have to use to minimize fees.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees#statemen... https://www.paypal.com/gf/smarthelp/article/how-can-i-update... The first page says it's 5% + 0.09 now, though. Edit: Oh, fixed the first link, the page was using javascript to break anchor links for some reason. Also that second page only exists on some versions of the site.

Interesting, that section in the first link is missing in the German version of the document.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#133

Post by tinus_hn »

Sander_Marechal wrote: post #131
tinus_hn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with iDeal is that there is 0 consumer protection. If you pay for an order using a credit card and it’s a scam, you do a chargeback. If you pay for an order using iDeal and it’s a scam, the money is gone the moment you pay. There is no way to get the money back.

Yes there is, talk to your bank. Consumer protection is way better in the EU. I use the same Dutch bank that the OP uses (ING) and I can revert many transactions from right inside the app.

You can revert automatic transactions (as these are unauthorized and can be done by parties that know just your account number) but it is impossible to revert iDeal payments.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#134

Post by throwaway473825 »

twoslide wrote: post #128
harry8 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A service that costs a fraction of a cent to perform but charges tax on total revenue plus a big old fee has a big barrier to entry or it has zero customers tomrrow. "all american transactions" - who cares what proportion it is? It's the most vulgar display of market power imaginable. "We will tax this large chunk of the economy." And I'm not even seeing anyone saying they won't get away with it. It's really quite as…

Would you propose a national price cap on transaction charges? It would be hard to justify intervening in this way, given that there is plenty of competition and rates are not very different. Any transaction (even cash) has associated costs.

I'm yet to find a European that complains about the EU's caps on interchange fees for debit and credit cards. Is a regulation like this unfathomable for most Americans?

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#135

Post by the-dude »

tinus_hn wrote: post #95
dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

The problem with iDeal is that there is 0 consumer protection. If you pay for an order using a credit card and it’s a scam, you do a chargeback. If you pay for an order using iDeal and it’s a scam, the money is gone the moment you pay. There is no way to get the money back.

Have you ever done a chargeback in NL? Which card? Which bank? What kind of proof was required?

ICS requires you to snailmail them printouts of your purchase etc. within a small time window.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#136

Post by wslh »

Brazil implemented a neutral QR with direct payments which been there are basically no fees if you use this system: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28757537

It is incredible how, very few times, developed countries can directly build a new infrastructure that beat the infrastructure of most developed countries.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#137

Post by throwaway473825 »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #99
tinus_hn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with iDeal is that there is 0 consumer protection. If you pay for an order using a credit card and it’s a scam, you do a chargeback. If you pay for an order using iDeal and it’s a scam, the money is gone the moment you pay. There is no way to get the money back.

I love how Americans are totally fine with paying a tax on every transaction they make in order to protect random people from occurrences of financial fraud, yet are vehemently opposed to exactly the same system for healthcare. I mean, rationally you would expect the opposite: people typically don't do $10k+ transactions using credit cards, so a worst case consequence of fraud you're not protected from is quite small…

Note that high fees aren't a prerequisite for consumer protection. European credit cards offer full protection, despite having capped interchange fees.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#138

Post by dmantis »

harry8 wrote: post #78
twoslide wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a stretch to equate Paypal with "all American transactions." There are of course Visa/Mastercard (variable but about 2%), debit cards, Venmo, and older bank transfer technologies (ACH).

A service that costs a fraction of a cent to perform but charges tax on total revenue plus a big old fee has a big barrier to entry or it has zero customers tomrrow. "all american transactions" - who cares what proportion it is? It's the most vulgar display of market power imaginable. "We will tax this large chunk of the economy." And I'm not even seeing anyone saying they won't get away with it. It's really quite as…

There is already Bitcoin with basically free Lightning Network transactions, so it's more like people vote with their wallets that they prefer (at least for now) paying this 3% tax instead of few bucks per year for channels opening/closing. And it works in the same internet market (real life and cards is a bit more complicated because of existing payment infrastructure).

So nobody force Americans to pay, actually, they do that voluntarily.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#139

Post by herbst »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

Switzerland has a system called Twint. It exists as prepaid account or attached to one of the most popular Swiss bank accounts. Transactions are free (for end users) and instant, you can even chat with emojis under the transaction.

You can start accepting Twint without any hurdles. Or use a merchant gateway and pay like 0.3% or so.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#140

Post by rendaw »

Reason077 wrote: post #90
dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

Merchant fees for both debit and credit cards are significantly lower in all EU countries (and UK), compared to the US, thanks to the interchange fee regulation (IFR) that caps interchange fees at 0.2% for debit card and 0.3% for credit cards. This translates into much lower merchant fees. Even a tiny startup with zero transaction volume can easily get less than 2% on their physical card transactions (using something…

How do the IFR caps work with small transactions? Like < 1 EUR? Maybe I should move to Europe.
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