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Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

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Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#21

Post by smorgusofborg »

tinus_hn wrote: post #19
ekianjo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is stopping infections and deaths? The vaccine. Vaccinated people still get and spread infections - They simply dont get much symptoms from it. This kind of comment is exactly why people don't understand what the "vaccines" actually do.

You need to believe vaccines stop infections to be able to blame the unvaccinated for the continuation of the pandemic.

You need to believe that vaccines stop an adequate proportion of the infections between vaccinated individuals to believe full vaccination would end the pandemic[1].

But you don't even have to believe that when it comes to the relevance of the pandemic. Looking at the number of people who are vaccinated (or bellow vaccination age) and go to hospital or die in my country it would be a severe but acceptable flu season. Does every severe flu season need a pandemic response?

(1- Within the round of first infections. You can actually believe that it is insufficient on contagion but ends viable mutation and will end the pandemic by using delta as a booster.)

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#22

Post by throwaway510921 »

ekianjo wrote: post #18
bb88 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying something is safe and effective doesn't make it so. That said, the numbers of death and continued infections don't lie. Brazil was ivermectin happy, but it didn't stop the infections and subsequent deaths. What is stopping infections and deaths? The vaccine. That's pretty clear. So why aren't you 100% behind the vaccine? Are you too wrapped up with your stance with Ivermectin that you can no longer change your…

> What is stopping infections and deaths? The vaccine. Vaccinated people still get and spread infections - They simply dont get much symptoms from it. This kind of comment is exactly why people don't understand what the "vaccines" actually do.

>Vaccinated people still get and spread infections

With a better immune response, infected people are also less contagious. So technically, yes, vaccines stop the infections.

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#23

Post by smorgusofborg »

incrudible wrote: post #16
bb88 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying something is safe and effective doesn't make it so. That said, the numbers of death and continued infections don't lie. Brazil was ivermectin happy, but it didn't stop the infections and subsequent deaths. What is stopping infections and deaths? The vaccine. That's pretty clear. So why aren't you 100% behind the vaccine? Are you too wrapped up with your stance with Ivermectin that you can no longer change your…

The vaccines are not stopping infections. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7

That high level overview doesn't really mean it isn't stopping infections. In a place with ~50% vaccination a larger portion of unvaccinated are taking additional isolation precautions either by intelligence or by force, but infection could primarily be from a minority of super spreaders to others, etc so this data doesn't indicate that the current transmission mode would be possible in a highly vaccinated population.

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#24

Post by incrudible »

smorgusofborg wrote: post #23
incrudible wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccines are not stopping infections. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7

That high level overview doesn't really mean it isn't stopping infections. In a place with ~50% vaccination a larger portion of unvaccinated are taking additional isolation precautions either by intelligence or by force, but infection could primarily be from a minority of super spreaders to others, etc so this data doesn't indicate that the current transmission mode would be possible in a highly vaccinated population…

…but there are highly vaccinated populations with high infection rates, right? If the vaccines actually stopped infections, this should not be possible. There is a brief window (1-2 months) where the vaccines reduce infections by up to 95%, but that number drops quickly. After six months, there is virtually no reduction.

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#25

Post by oblio »

aaron695 wrote: post #6

> hoping to stave off COVID-19, but in a few rare cases that move prompted liver failure Ivermectin does not cause liver failure. There is no evidence of this. The Tweet about the one patient does not say the patient is getting a liver transplant, and they are not sure why there was liver issues. It can cause liver injury in a really small amount of cases, which should self correct. (I assume people do not think temp…

> It's a very safe drug. That's why is so important. But media lies and vilification of a 3rd world drug I guess are more important.

What's the angle, though. Cui bono?

Edit: Thanks for the downvote. If you come up with conspiracy theories, you have to explain this, not me. It's step 1 of a conspiracy:

Who benefits? How?

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#26

Post by smorgusofborg »

incrudible wrote: post #24
smorgusofborg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That high level overview doesn't really mean it isn't stopping infections. In a place with ~50% vaccination a larger portion of unvaccinated are taking additional isolation precautions either by intelligence or by force, but infection could primarily be from a minority of super spreaders to others, etc so this data doesn't indicate that the current transmission mode would be possible in a highly vaccinated population…

…but there are highly vaccinated populations with high infection rates, right? If the vaccines actually stopped infections, this should not be possible. There is a brief window (1-2 months) where the vaccines reduce infections by up to 95%, but that number drops quickly. After six months, there is virtually no reduction.

> …but there are highly vaccinated populations with high infection rates, right?

Israel is about the highest examined and it is not high enough to know how a control group of vaccinated verse unvaccinated individuals would fare in a place where any other individual was vaccinated or bellow 12.

95% was in a retail lock down environment. In the current environment I am having hundreds of interactions a week with the unvaccinated and if I were unvaccinated would have far fewer, obviously a test run in this environment should achieve less than 95% and may appear that vaccination causes COVID because the economy is running on acceptable risks.

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#27

Post by oblio »

rargramble wrote: post #3
dfdz wrote: post #2

I think everyone (who is reasonable) agrees the vaccine is the most effective tool we have against covid based on current scientific studies However this article about Ivermectin is not well reasoned: > As infection rates soared, some people were taking excessively high doses of the medicine every day, hoping to stave off COVID-19, but in a few rare cases that move prompted liver failure. >Other patients were unknowi…

No, because that goes against the narrative of demonizing ivermectin as some sort of dangerous drug. There's a reason all these outlets have been pushing the idea that it's a "horse dewormer."

What's the angle, though. Cui bono?

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#28

Post by tinus_hn »

smorgusofborg wrote: post #21
tinus_hn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to believe vaccines stop infections to be able to blame the unvaccinated for the continuation of the pandemic.

You need to believe that vaccines stop an adequate proportion of the infections between vaccinated individuals to believe full vaccination would end the pandemic[1]. But you don't even have to believe that when it comes to the relevance of the pandemic. Looking at the number of people who are vaccinated (or bellow vaccination age) and go to hospital or die in my country it would be a severe but acceptable flu season.…

Ah, the old ‘vaccinations will prevent mutations’ fantasy.

Even if you believe it is possible to vaccinate the entire human population world wide and that vaccinations prevent infections, covid spreads through animal reservoirs. Are you suggesting we can vaccinate all animals?

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#29

Post by bXVsbGVy »

aaron695 wrote: post #6

> hoping to stave off COVID-19, but in a few rare cases that move prompted liver failure Ivermectin does not cause liver failure. There is no evidence of this. The Tweet about the one patient does not say the patient is getting a liver transplant, and they are not sure why there was liver issues. It can cause liver injury in a really small amount of cases, which should self correct. (I assume people do not think temp…

Brazilian, here.

I didn't know about this tweet. Looking for it, I found an article that interviewed him [1].

The twitter doctor is the president of a respiratory disease association in Sao Paulo. He claims the young lady had a "drug-induced hepatitis" after taking 18mg of IVM daily for a week. "She is very close to need a transplant".

The doctor remarks the drug safety, "Ivermectin is a safe drug, it has been used over many years. The toxicity cases are rare.". Then disapproves the off-label prescription of IVM as treatment for covid given the lack of scientific evidence it works -- "so far".

He, then, explains the regular treatment schedule with IVM: one pill a day, once. Exceptionally, can be taken up to 3 days. And, again, criticizes people for taking it often.

He ends saying: "In summary: there is no early state treatment for covid that is scientifically proven to work so far. In mild cases, most people progress well (...) without taking any drugs".

The article also reproduces a statement from the drug manufacturer Merk, former patent holder of IVM. The statements says that pre-clinical and clinical studies showed no evidence the drug might work for covid.

Afterwards they show some figures from a survey done by the Brazilian Medical Association. From the interviewed doctors, 65,3% believes CQ is ineffective to treat covid, and 58,6% believes IVM is ineffective.

Thenm they report some common side effects of HCQ + IVM: increased QT interval, diarrhea, headaches, compromise of liver functions, etc.

---

There are documented cases of deaths from people taking the covid-kit. See [2].

---

This seems to have become a recurrent theme in HN, and, for once, Brazil is ahead of the curve. I might aggregate information from the press and medical associations and make a proper answer next time this show up.

If the covid treatment trend in America follows the same path it had in Brazil, get ready for: ozone therapy (in the anus), and HQC inhalation.

[1] https://ictq.com.br/farmacia-clinica/2580-pneumologista-aler... [2] https://super.abril.com.br/saude/pacientes-vao-para-fila-de-...

Re: Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

#30

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway510921 wrote: post #22
ekianjo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is stopping infections and deaths? The vaccine. Vaccinated people still get and spread infections - They simply dont get much symptoms from it. This kind of comment is exactly why people don't understand what the "vaccines" actually do.

>Vaccinated people still get and spread infections With a better immune response, infected people are also less contagious. So technically, yes, vaccines stop the infections.

[deleted]
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