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Ruby removed “Participants will be tolerant of opposing views” from its CoC

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Re: Ruby removed “Participants will be tolerant of opposing views” from its CoC

#631

Post by blacktriangle »

Chris2048 wrote: post #614
bjt2n3904 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are asking all the right questions... And you will never get an acceptable answer beyond "Some times you need to break a few eggs to make an omelette." Sadly, the CoC wars were lost several years ago. The victors had the simplest tactic: projection. "We are just against all the bad things. We are anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-prejudice. Why aren't you on our side?" Well, I have two things to say. First, I eagerl…

> I eagerly await your omelette what does this mean?

There's a saying "to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs." It's a justification used by those who think they're bringing about some great positive change to justify the all the damage they caused.

For example, "In order to bring about our communist utopia, we're going to have to murder a few million people."

Re: Ruby removed “Participants will be tolerant of opposing views” from its CoC

#632

Post by k7ra »

bawolff wrote: post #71
simonsarris wrote: post #4

Almost more surprising is that this was removed: > When interpreting the words and actions of others, participants should always assume good intentions. In favor of this: > Participants should speak and act with good intentions, but understand that intent and impact are not equivalent. Also changed yesterday: > Behaviour which can be reasonably considered harassment will not be tolerated. became: > Behaviour which ca…

Isn't protected class an american legal term? Seems weirdly ameri-centric for a document of this nature. Not to mention that gay people weren't even a protected class in the usa until last year afaik. Not exactly a very inclusive definition. Not to mention the implication that harrasment is somehow ok against people who are not members of the protected class? I appreciate minorities get a lot of shit that others don'…

You have what is unfortunately a common misunderstanding of the term protected class. Nobody is IN a protected class, because protected classes are not any particular group of people, like middle class or working class. In the civil rights act of 1964 protected classes are the classifications that the law refers to such as race, religion, etc. So it is illegal to discriminate against someone because of their religion, but it does not protect any religion over any other. For race, race itself is the protected class. So it is illegal to discriminate against anyone based on race, not just black people or Asians, for example.

Re: Ruby removed “Participants will be tolerant of opposing views” from its CoC

#633

Post by y_tho »

eitland wrote: post #407
api wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people see a lot of cops in a neighborhood, they start to suspect there is a lot of crime. Seems like a variation of this. "If this community really needs a CoC, maybe it's actually full of bigots and assholes."

Same with the sign on a certain airport I visited a number of times as a service engineer: There was a hand full of cash with a stop sign over, obviously it meant "we do not accept bribes". But for me it meant "this place have or have recently had a serious problems with bribery". Same with: "We do not spit on the floor in this building".

Receiving bribes, soliciting bribes or declining bribes?

Re: Ruby removed “Participants will be tolerant of opposing views” from its CoC

#634

Post by ric2b »

CharlesW wrote: post #493
Locke wrote: post #406

I wish we responded to situations more proportionally. In this case, someone made a joke about women not liking to reveal their true age as they get older. It's a boring cliched joke. Something I've heard too many times in my life (and, most often from women). Is it sexist? I can see the argument. Is it professional to make such a joke on a ruby mailing list? I don't know, perhaps not. Does it warrant responses like…

> No links to the joke. It's quoted in the GitHub link, and presumably it'd be trivial to find in the list archives. This isn't as benign as you characterize it, since it's basically "this date handling bug must have been created by a woman since women lie about their age". Lazy misogyny is still misogyny. > Is it professional to make such a joke on a ruby mailing list? I understand what you're doing here ( https://r…

> It's quoted in the GitHub link

Is it? I don't see it, just a link to a Twitter thread that also never links to the actual joke.

Re: Ruby removed “Participants will be tolerant of opposing views” from its CoC

#635

Post by fitzie »

duxup wrote: post #491
Locke wrote: post #406

I wish we responded to situations more proportionally. In this case, someone made a joke about women not liking to reveal their true age as they get older. It's a boring cliched joke. Something I've heard too many times in my life (and, most often from women). Is it sexist? I can see the argument. Is it professional to make such a joke on a ruby mailing list? I don't know, perhaps not. Does it warrant responses like…

It seems like there does need to be some sort of method for RESOLVING these situations. I'd hate to make more of a process for parsing a one sentence joke but ... how else do you do it? So you throw it to a committee who comes back with "We told the user their statement could be seen as sexist and not to make that joke anymore." There you go. Done. Issue is no longer relevant, time to move on with life. If it comes u…

,if you look at the updated to the code of conduct it is clear what solution they are putting forward. the removed the sentence to honor the principle of charity(removed assume good intent), and gave permission to be public scolds ( added speak with good intent). it's a facisnating attribute of American politics that insist generally upbeat people become public scolds, as if them making a fuss is a convincing learning moment.

Re: Ruby removed “Participants will be tolerant of opposing views” from its CoC

#637

Post by pseudalopex »

morpunkee wrote: post #177
pseudalopex wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a troll.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28712977

Troll or not, he was supported by those people.

Who supported them? What did they support?

No one supported hmdne's claim everyone knows what protected classes are.

Jacob Herrington encouraged hmdne to make another PR mostly. Consider he recognized hmdne was trying to derail his PR. And he said he'd be in support of finding a better way to communicate the spirit of tolerance and mutual respect. Not removing that part.

Matz approved both PRs. But it isn't clear he read the discussion.

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